The purpose of the question “the fuck is a cishet” goes well beyond defining the term you daft simpleton, it goes to express my distaste for the LGBTwhateverthefuckelse community constant need to label people’s gender and sexuality who do no wish to be labeled. This is a serious post and I do not appreciate you interfering with my attempts to make a point, not to mention my post contained more than just that.

I’m sorry that you lack the ability read beyond literal text, I really am, it must be hard on everyone close to you (I assume there aren’t many left). Please stop wasting your time undermining what’s left of the community’s ability to communicate. You even went as far as to delete other people’s posts who agreed. I have screenshots if you insist on this pathetic ego trip. Ban me if that’s what you need to do but you’re just hurting the community of the game you develop, it’s self destructive and redundant behavior. So many people complain about the staff over moderating every little thing just because they can.. it’s cancerous and I seriously do not know why you bother.

I’m sick of reiterating this point. Use your head ffs. It’s been years.

Dude I literally think you’re soooooo in the wrong about the whole transphobic shit if you don’t like trans women or even trans in general, just because people aren’t interested in being with them no matter if they’re more feminine or whatever DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE TRANSPHOBIC, EVERYONE HAS DIFFERENT TASTES IN WHO THEY LIKE OR NOT. Generally I can tell you right now most people don’t even care if they are transgender or whatever, although people WHO SHOW HATE TO THEM ARE CALLED TRANSPHOBIC BUT BECAUSE YOU SHOW NO APPEAL TO THEM TO LIKE THEM DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE TRANSPOHBIC.

You've completely lost track of this conversation. I'll steer you back.

Nobody cares.

I understand that transexuals are transgenders. My initial point was that you said it's transphobic to not wanna fuck transgenders. That means, according to you, it's transphobic to not want to fuck transexuals (since transexuals are also transgenders)..

Get it? That's why I said these broad definitions are problematic. You unwittingly said that anyone who doesn't want to fuck a transexual is transphobic.

Thank-you for proving my point. lol

You said 'when people use man/woman they're referring to gender' because 'sex is widely irrelevant' and that we need to use additional labels to describe biological sex.

So yes, you tried to redefine male/female to refer to gender instead of sex. Remember how I listed all those definitions of male? Yeah.

I'm glad you walked back your assertion that sex is not widely irrelevant in your admission that 'we're a long ways from there'. Consider walking back other claims.

And as you established in the OP, trans includes transexuals. Therefore, it's 'transphobic' to not wanna fuck transexuals. Geeze.

Nobody cares.

No again, it counters your argument that the only differences between men and women are negligible. Men and women are different, and the changing of genitalia won't suddenly make a female tennis pro able to defeat a male tennis pro. Or a female chess grandmaster compete with a male grandmaster. Male and female bodies have different areas of competency. Male and female brains have different areas of competency. Is this fact really so offensive?

You mean you're not gonna allow a rebuttal? Gonna stop the discussion right there before someone makes you look silly? lolk

I'll be merciful here (you're welcome). I won't deconstruct this. I will recommend that you should consider aborting your continuing support of your friend's identification as a demon. Reinforcing willful self-delusion is not something friends should do to friends.

You should've ended that sentence after the word 'authority'.

You are not an authority on who gets to fuck who. No amount of gender studies changes this. No buts.
--------------------------------

Nah, just fed up with ur stupid shit ay. If you weren't such a [REDACTED], I would engage with you respectfully.

If anyone wants to see a breakdown of Maya's 'logic', read this page.

Male and female are not cultural creations. They denote sex.

And when someone says 'is that chick a man or a woman' they wanna know what they actually, biologically, are. Not what they're presenting as.

What about my tennis example? Differences between the sexes exist, accept it. You can never be a real, 100% woman. Sorry to say.

I certainly wouldn't support my friend's retreat from real life into a virtual bubble, of course I wouldn't. Into a virtual.... 'Safe Space'.

So to finally answer Moop's question, 'would you be fine supporting your friend if he identified as Hitler', your answer would be yes? Utter lunacy.

Would I be considered a racist for (for example) being romantically attracted and sexually attracted to only white people? Despite that being a preference for me? Would I be considered racist for only wanting to have intercourse with a black person because that's my preference?


I don't understand how it's trans-phobic to not want be attracted to someone that is transexual/transgender. I have my preferences and I shouldn't be called trans-phobic for having my opinions on what is attractive and what isn't.

Maya holds a bigoted position, it's extremely ironic. You can't decide my sexuality just as I can't decide yours - or do you recommend conversion camps for us to become attracted to trans people?

You also don't get to decide what words people use - only forum moderators can do that ; D


All you get to do is decide how you allow those words to affect you. If you can't handle people's opinions, you'll have a difficult life whether you're trans or not. But the fact that you are makes it all the more horrifying considering that the trans communities are targets of violent hate crimes. That's a real problem. The nonsense you're spouting is childish, easily dismissed, and worst of all is alienating to people who hold no hatred for you or your community - until you accuse them of bigotry for no reason other than an opinion you hold regarding sexuality.


I'd like other people who happen upon this post to understand this most importantly: no one person speaks for any particular community. Maya does not speak for trans people, only for herself.
Otherwise, I'd speak for all assholes

I don't really want to get involved but I'm going to point out the obvious issue with this argument because I've seen it used several times.


Maya's statement seems to imply trans people who have undergone sex change surgery are essentially identical to their now same sex counterparts. Therefore there would be no way to tell a female from birth apart from one who was male and later had surgery to change their sex unless they informed you. Which means there is no physical characteristics to base your preference off of. It's not the same as if you were to have varying levels of attraction to people of varying skin tones because if we're to assume Maya's assertion is true there's no physical difference between the two.


Though assuming Maya's statement true is a pretty big assumption and I have no idea how accurate it is.

Also, to Maya, sorry if my understanding of what you're saying is inaccurate. If it is just ignore me

It's still not thansphobic in that context. In the same way that some guys prefer "natural" bodies over females with fake boobs and ass, having preference towards natural female shouldn't come with negative connotations.

It's also extremely ironic that this point is even being discussed. Going back on this thread, you can find a lot of stuff related to preference, for example:

How can you (Maya) expect everyone to tolerate people's preferred pronouns and identities, but subsequently condemn any preference towards females from birth? Don't you think that by calling people bigots and transphobes for their preference you're becoming the very thing that you're fighting against? If you want to change our minds about transgederism and transsexualism, at least recognise your own biases before preaching your views.

I think you’re going about this all wrong. You’ve grouped a majority of people into one place, called them out on their transphobia, and demanded they change their ways immediately.

Many people don’t respond well to that, and I won’t tell you I’m one of the few people who would either. I think instead of trying to get us to agree with you, I think it would be best to logically inform us of what ends up happening from start to finish on how a transsexual goes through the process of realizing their gender is different from their biological one. What happens in their head to make them realize this? How do they understand and tell their families these things?

I’m sure there’s a more gentle way to letting us become informed. You’ve thrown multiple facts about transsexuals at us, but they all seem to be in defence of something we’ve said. I’d personally like to know what started the journey of feeling like you were a man in a woman’s body, or vice versa.
I also agree with ele, getting someone else’s opinion on the matter who will give you more insight on how to come better prepared will make this easier. Not just transsexual friends, but someone who is just an ally, or even a friend of yours who is neither gay, bi, transsexual or otherwise to help you dissect your paragraphs and make them more open to the masses. I’m not saying your points are invalid, just that your approach towards teaching them is impractical.

I also would love for you to be more open towards our opinions and beliefs too. You want us to accept your identity and become an ally, but for most people the second will be impossible through the means you’ve done. You can’t force open a heart, the heart has to open to you. Heartfelt experiences you’ve had, struggles you’ve faced, these are the things that will make us more open to helping you.

Lastly, I do think that although it’s not hurting your friend to believe they’re a demon, it’s one thing to accept other people sexual preferences and identities, and it’s another to willingly let a friend you care for live a lie. It’s a gateway to legitimately becoming mentally unstable and although it’s not nice to your friend, they may need you to help them realize they are a human, and someone who needs to come to grip with the reality in front of them. Ele gave you a good example with VR. Although it’s a beautiful lie, it’s still a lie. VR shouldn’t be used as an escape from the world you live in, the same way one shouldn’t believe they’re something they’re physically incapable of becoming. It’s a fine and dangerous line your friend is playing, and I really do think they should receive help to become more aware of their surroundings

Well, you managed to quote me and not even address what you quoted. Why bother quoting people just to ignore what they said and call them bigots? Because it makes sense to you and that's all that matters : )


This is not true, you believe your opinions are objectively true, narcissism is not a good quality. None of this applies to the attraction/transphobe stuff imo, but I can do comparisons too, it's easy.
If I'm not attracted to a dwarf, or someone with downs syndrome, or cerebral palsy, or spondylocostal dysplasia am I an ableist? Well, I have had sex with someone that has spondylocostal dysplasia so I must be a champion of equal rights.
If I am not attracted to old people, am I ageist? If not a man, then homophobic? What about people who are attracted to drag queens and not some other group? Are they bigots for their natural desires?
But onto race. Oh. You really don't know jack about race.
I don't think you know very many people that aren't white. That's an assumption and I could be wrong, but if you did, you would understand how ludicrous this statement is. What's more racist than not being attracted to another race? Don't answer this one, I'll tell you: fetishizing people based on race.
What makes you an authority on racism? I don't hold myself to be an authority on racism. I did grow up in a minority white neighborhood though so I'd just love for you to try the race topic some more, please.
Here's a preamble to it, just to get the gears lubed. Have you heard of colorism? It's discriminating based on skin tone. If one black person doesn't find darker/lighter skin people attractive, are they colorist? Are they self racist if they don't like people of darker skin tones? Or racist against white people if they prefer dark skin? Many present that it's not possible for black people to be racist, only prejudiced. So are they bigots or not?
I don't know the answers to these questions. They're difficult, any answer I can present would be an opinion, conjecture based. What about you? You seem to think everything else you say is true.
By the way, people of color who are also trans are victimized at a much higher rate, and many champions of trans rights are black - so I sure do hope you have black friends!

You buried something in there too.

wat
Is that so? Any human is attracted to any human? Well gee willikers that sounds like an opinion, and a terrible one at that. Care to try and defend it, or wanna amend it? I'd pick latter, but hey, you're a narcissist so who knows. You, probably.


Did I say trans people gross me out? I did not. Don't put words in my mouth. I also have not begged you for anything, though it is another point that speaks to your character, how you see yourself, how you process the world.

I am not, but your whole post presupposes that anyone who disagrees with your opinions is a bigot.
Why would you even bother quoting my text if you're just going to ignore it?

I am not offended - it is offensive. I am offensive in turn because you don't deserve sincerity. You are a hypocrite for generalizing a demographic, regardless of the fact that it is, mostly, a privileged demographic. That takes the wind out of everything else you bring to the table, it is undercut by the obvious self-righteous blind-spots I am pointing out. Hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue - that's something to be aware of in yourself if your goal is to reach out to people and change minds.


No, it's because I was extremely insulting. I had too much fun with other replies, insulting to grind in my point that you can't control peoples' opinions or how they choose to interact with you, only how you navigate it and let it affect you. I'm not surprised in the slightest that you presumed the truth; I've already mentioned your conceited nature, this is another point to that aspect of your character which informs these views of yours.


Excuse me, how is disrespect oppression? Do you need a safe space? Take a shower.

It doesn't, but I'm ready for your next attempt to ignore what you're quoting and call me a bigot based on your own premise

AHhhhhhH yeah there it is, all you can do, call people bigots without cause to distract from what they're actually saying, maybe it helps you sleep at night idk.

If your goal is to engender goodwill and understanding, you're doing it wrong. Trying to convince people trans people aren't weird? Don't go around accusing practically everyone of bigotry, bc that's pretty damn weird. Next you go on to act like you do talk for trans people, which would be laughable in itself without all this context. The awesome height of your ego astounds. It is only particularly funny because you think that your ideas are "the way a progressive and tolerant person thinks about gender and transgenderism", (another trait of an egotist) and therefore anyone who doesn't is a bigot. Which leads to you generalizing and stereotyping people. If that's not irony, I don't know what is.


WOAH you must only know like 8!

Right because everyone knows the trans community is completely united on these issues and there is no disagreement between the different trans groups and certainly not with any other lgbt group, they all get on great!
But oh all your friends told you they have your back so I should view your perspective as scripture? Moses, is that you? Oh, no, it's Mike Pence. I bet he has a black friend!

Cut the melodrama, this isn't a Lifetime movie and no one's trying to silence you - in fact a moment ago you rejoiced at moderators deleting other people's posts, having assumed that it was because they agree with you. I didn't ask whether they agree with you or not, as that's not why the posts were removed. But either way you're a hypocrite, and hypocrites are certainly to be dismissed. Any other aspect of your identity, I couldn't care any less - but an idiotic, immature narcissist, oh that just gives me the vapors.


What a coincidence I just so happen to have dated non-binary people. Weird huh, ah well, there's bigots everywhere I guess. Didn't know I was one till you ignored what I said, instead placed your own premise and called me a bigot atop it, but hey, that kind of logic is irrefutable, no denying it. Because your goal is to persuade, not insult, right? Leave the insulting to us bigots, we're much better at it.
Ah that "indistinguishable" premise again, hmm. That so?

But besides, I'd love to hear your opinions on race!! I'm sure you have some doozies - i bet you're an expert... make sure to ask some black friends!


Crux of the matter - you presume how other people think. You presume that every one who doesn't find themselves attracted to trans people is grossed out. Not so. Just not into it. You always base these arguments on the ideas that
1) you can't choose whether your trans or not, and how far you go in operations to feel comfortable doesn't count as a "choice" in this context because you didn't choose to be trans.
I agree with that, any progressive person would.

2) in (fantasy) cases where one would not know post-op without their telling one, indistinguishable to one's taste otherwise etc, not being attracted when one find out means one is transphobic

First off, if she's indistinguishable, then why call her trans? Why call someone born female a cis woman? If there is literally no difference, then why tell the cis male? You've asserted that there is no case where a trans woman wouldn't inform the man... if she is completely indistinguishable, why would it not be informed consent to tell the cis male?
Sorry, but some people prefer natural vaginas. Others have differing taste - it's up to them, whoever xi may be. That's the beauty of equality. I don't judge you for your desires - but for your behavior.

Assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is a bigot will do nothing but fast track you to frustration, and you alienate those who are not your enemy. Do not assume I have agreed with any points made other than my own, there genuinely are terrible people on the internet - you happen to be as bad as the actual bigots on this forum.

Why talk to someone that eschews substance in favor of rancor? I'd rather wield both.

You might be done here soon, but, like so many men, I already finished.