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I just don't understand how someone can't have enough self-respect to stay in good shape? I mean I exercise every day and the thing is, is that it's FUN! The reason people don't like to do it is because it's too hard but if you'd just do it from the beginning it wouldn't be hard. Someone please explain to me how people can be comfortable being so overweight. There's health risks, it just looks bad, you can't move around to the best of your ability, why would you let this happen!?
As I mentioned before, obesity is a disease created by cultural influences. When a child is raised by overweight parents, they are statistically more likely to be overweight. A child who's main exposure on how to manage their diet is overweight models their own diet, and is often subjected to the same diet out of necessity, as that role model. In addition, people who were overweight for a long part of their lives have a harder time managing their weight, even when at optimal weight, compared to people who were never overweight.

And then there's the culture of exercise. You know who finds exercise rewarding and fun? Fit people. You know who doesn't? Overweight people. It requires more effort and energy to move a heavier body, often with muscles which aren't developed for strenuous activity.

In addition, there's a stigma around overweight people, especially the obese and morbidly obese, with exercise. People say that an overweight person should lose weight, but these same people often look at those who try to exercise to lose weight as disgusting when they try it. It's a double standard a lot of overweight people feel pressure from, as they're told to exercise to be healthy, but ridiculed and insulted when they try to exercise. They're not actually being held to the standard of health, but the standard of attractiveness. A fat guy running is not pretty, but he'll be laughed at anyways despite it being the healthy option because he doesn't look good doing it.


Basically, it's not like people want to be unhealthy, sedentary, or overweight, but often that the choice is made for them before they realize it's a choice, and then faces the pressures of culture and biology while fixing that choice.
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Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
As I mentioned before, obesity is a disease created by cultural influences. When a child is raised by overweight parents, they are statistically more likely to be overweight. A child who's main exposure on how to manage their diet is overweight models their own diet, and is often subjected to the same diet out of necessity, as that role model. In addition, people who were overweight for a long part of their lives have a harder time managing their weight, even when at optimal weight, compared to people who were never overweight.

And then there's the culture of exercise. You know who finds exercise rewarding and fun? Fit people. You know who doesn't? Overweight people. It requires more effort and energy to move a heavier body, often with muscles which aren't developed for strenuous activity.

In addition, there's a stigma around overweight people, especially the obese and morbidly obese, with exercise. People say that an overweight person should lose weight, but these same people often look at those who try to exercise to lose weight as disgusting when they try it. It's a double standard a lot of overweight people feel pressure from, as they're told to exercise to be healthy, but ridiculed and insulted when they try to exercise. They're not actually being held to the standard of health, but the standard of attractiveness. A fat guy running is not pretty, but he'll be laughed at anyways despite it being the healthy option because he doesn't look good doing it.


Basically, it's not like people want to be unhealthy, sedentary, or overweight, but often that the choice is made for them before they realize it's a choice, and then faces the pressures of culture and biology while fixing that choice.

That's fair for a lot of it but I do want to say something on that:

The one person an obese person is safest from feeling judged is a gym. I've never seen anything but GIGANTIC (no pun intended) support of obese people when they're doing something about it. Do I get a bit disgusted when I see an obese person at McDonalds? Yeah. But you know where I'm willing to do anything I can to help them? When they are on the treadmill.

This is How I feel



You, just like you said, have a choice. You can worry about the stigma of being fit and whatnot but that's a REALLY good problem to have compared to dying early from heart disease.


For the record, because I didn't clarify before:

I study Kinesiology. I specialize in Fitness, Nutrition, and Business. My official title would be "Exercise Scientist". I had to overcome a life of anorexia and transform myself into a guy who almost competed in bodybuilding. I have terrible genetics, my joints hate me, but I made the choice to push through all that. I have the academia knowledge (biomechanics, kinesiology, etc), the personal experience, and personal training experience.
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So we all realise being obese isn't a good thing, or do we?

"Fat Positive" "Thin Privilege"

<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
Just to make a fair warning statement: my finger is on the button for closing this. Last time, it ended in a huge shitstorm. Keep the discussion nice.

Besides, what does OP even want to achieve? What's there to 'think' about obese people? Isn't it just obvious that they should try to lose weight to stay within the safe zone? Isn't it obvious that we should all support them in that decision? Is there any other ethical point of view on this matter? What's there to discuss?
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Originally Posted by Arglax View Post
What's there to 'think' about obese people? Isn't it just obvious that they should try to lose weight to stay within the safe zone? Isn't it obvious that we should all support them in that decision? Is there any other ethical point of view on this matter? What's there to discuss?

Read my post (directly above yours) before you start throwing about 'obviously'. There are people who disagree with you. Maybe respond to a post in this thread instead of driveby posting?
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
Your post didn't disagree with the premise that overweight people should lose weight, but it did point out there is a push for fat acceptance. There could be an argument that the fat acceptance movement is an attempt to justify staying fat, but the movement is mainly based on how, even when becoming a very large, no pun intended, minority, everything is still structured for thin people with little to no attempts to accomodate larger people.

Also Hax, even if there is support from some people for fat people trying to lose weight, there are some, probably like the OP, who really just give no fucks about the other person and derides them for their weight. I spent a good portion of my childhood severely overweight, yet the most athletic kid in my school. I've been on the school basketball team, soccer team, volleyball team, track team in the maximum number of events they could sign me up for during the regionals because I came first in all but one event during the inter-school, baseball and softball teams, cross-country team, competitive swim teams, and several other athletic game things common in schools, yet all I would hear from classmates and people's whispers in public was my rotund body shape. I was capable of lifting a classmate over my head, and left almost everybody in a 300 student school in the dust during races, and all I would hear is how I was fat. People don't see past the body shape unless they see somebody try to do something about it, and even then a good portion of them still laugh as though it's a futile attempt. During every game when I was still in sports, I've seen the pointing and snickering at me when I would show up, and it would always end with something along the lines off "who would of thought a fat kid could jump?" (something I actually had the pleasure of being told straight to my face after shutting down an opposing team's offense in basketball). Not everybody is supportive of fat people, even active ones. You can have a network of support like I had with coaches and some teammates, but it just takes one asshole to make you feel like it's all futile.
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Originally Posted by cjslick View Post
hmm ok well i'm here to ask what you guys feel about obese people, not generally fat, but as in super fat like his thigh his skin is really saggy

ok, dont get offended, but i really feel sorry for people who are obese and i do not understand what they have done to let themself go that bad

i love food yes everyone does but excersise is also great









sorry if i offended any of you, but if you're obese, you need to get on that mill motherfucker



Originally Posted by Datsick View Post
It's called eating healthy and exercise. There is no excuse if you really want to be in shape. Sure there's the rare person that genetically can't lose weight but why do you think 36% of Americans are obese (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/overwt.htm) but the rest of the world is nowhere near that? Do you think we have unusually bad genetics? No! We are literally killing ourselves with all the fast food and lack of exercise, and it disgusts me to be brutally honest. Sure it's one thing to let yourself get fat, but having kids and feeding them double whoppers every night? They're not going to object because, hell I'll admit, they taste good! They are kids and don't care about their appearance yet, but once they hit 13-14 they're going to be 50 lbs overweight and it was completely avoidable. If it was up to me I would just ban fast food restaurants and all that shit, no nutritional value.

(Actually, Mexico recently 'beat' America, and America is not the only country that jumps out).

Originally Posted by Datsick View Post
Well the thing about poor females being fatter and poor males being not as fat is probably because of this. 1. Cheap food is usually unhealthy and healthy food is usually expensive. As for poor males being less obese it's probably because they have less electronics and stuff and just naturally get exercise by walking around and doing stuff outside.

Where do you get all this information?

Originally Posted by Datsick View Post
I just don't understand how someone can't have enough self-respect to stay in good shape? I mean I exercise every day and the thing is, is that it's FUN! The reason people don't like to do it is because it's too hard but if you'd just do it from the beginning it wouldn't be hard. Someone please explain to me how people can be comfortable being so overweight. There's health risks, it just looks bad, you can't move around to the best of your ability, why would you let this happen!?

I agree about the health and mobility risks, but beauty is relative.

@Gorman: this is barely a discussion. I'm just wondering what OP was trying to achieve here. With my post, I just tried to make clear that I won't allow this to escalate like the earlier thread. I read the earlier posts, but not the one about the thin privilege thing, because I don't really understand what it's about.

I can't delete the "get on that mill motherfucker" in OP because lmods can't edit posts anymore, only delete (ask ego about this).

Besides, yes, I firmly believe that encouraging and helping work better than shaming. I used 'obvious' because I thought that from a humane point of view, there's no real point in insulting someone about their weight.
-

I think that most critics don't understand how difficult it is for some people to maintain a good shape. In some aspect, they're correct that with minor changes (eating less, for example), a lot could be achieved.

Exercise, eating more healthily, ... consume a lot of time and money. It is often an obese person's choice not to invest the time and money they have in healthy food and exercise. It's just a lot easier not to do that. The behaviour is, as datsick pointed out, often 'inherited', which is a shame.

But yes, in some aspect, culture and lifestyle reflect on the obesity rate. That would partially explain why some countries have a much more elevated rate than others.
Last edited by Arglax; Apr 28, 2014 at 03:38 PM.
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@Oracle: I'm sorry to hear that. I think, now that you're older, people would be far less likely to judge you in that way. It's unfortunate that due to lack of nutritional education in this country people could misinterpret your body. It reminds me of the BMI, which to me is by far one of the most useless tests out there. Using the BMI, a bodybuilder with 4% bodyfat and holding almost no water getting ready to put his fake tan on and jump on stage is considered just as obese as a sumo wrestler in japan.

I agree with you entirely that there becomes a stigma of people who constantly seek to be fit. Part of it is that people begin to feel jealousy or regret not doing more themselves, so they seek to belittle others who are actually putting in the effort. But those types of marks, from my experience, generally occur more when people are closer to IBW and looking to add more muscle / lose more fat than the average joe, rather than an obese person attempting to be "normal".


@Arlax: Eating less food is cheaper and less time consuming than .... eating more food. For many many obese people, simply eating less would provide substantial health benefits. So the "Well I'm opting to save time" excuse is hardly a good one. There's this missconception that to be eating healthy you need to rollerblade to your local farmer's market, pay 3x as much for organic whatevermajiggers, go on pinterest to look up a recipe, then spend 2 hours trying to make this weird green thing that looked delicious, give up, then order a pizza.

You can eat ice cream and still be healthy. You can have fast food now and again and still look and feel amazing. The problem becomes I tell someone that who should be eating... i don't know 3000 kcals a day, eats their dream meal of 1500 kcals in 1 meal, and then does nothing to account for it and still eats 1000 kcals a meal for the other 2, and has a snack.


I can personally attest that despite eating 1000 kcals MORE a day than I usually did, I actually saved money when I was eating healthier. I cooked food in bulk when I had time to (maybe I didn't have a lot of work one night, maybe it was the weekend). People looking for healthy complex carbs shouldn't freak out when they realize the cheapest one isn't coming from doughnuts and sugary drinks but from rice. Or pasta. A box of pasta is bigger than what 1 person is likely to consume in a sitting and it's only about $1.15? If you're looking for dense protein, it doesn't get much denser than skinless boneless chicken breast. You can make it on a cheap $15 foreman grill in minutes. Still you'll get multiple POUNDS of meat that have 22g of protein for every 3 ounces and not break $10.


It's not heritable in the same way type 1 diabetes is. It's inheritable in that humans are creatures of habits and we need a big push to change whatever habit we have. I feel weird and awkward when someone who doesn't usually come to class sits in my front row spot during a lecture in class. I certainly know that I "fall off the horse" for a few months at a time where I'm not doing what I need to do to look my best. But then I'll find inspiration, pound through the first 2 weeks where the creature of habit screams for you to return back to status quo, and a new habit/pattern forms. One of health. And we should only hope to increase education in our respective nations for others to understand that it IS within their control and the habit IS very rewarding.
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Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
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Originally Posted by DrHax View Post
@Arlax: Eating less food is cheaper and less time consuming than .... eating more food. For many many obese people, simply eating less would provide substantial health benefits. So the "Well I'm opting to save time" excuse is hardly a good one. There's this missconception that to be eating healthy you need to rollerblade to your local farmer's market, pay 3x as much for organic whatevermajiggers, go on pinterest to look up a recipe, then spend 2 hours trying to make this weird green thing that looked delicious, give up, then order a pizza.

I'm fairly certain that it requires net. less effort to eat non-healthy food.

It's not heritable in the same way type 1 diabetes is. It's inheritable in that humans are creatures of habits and we need a big push to change whatever habit we have.

Sorry, I should have clarified that I don't really mean genetic heritage, just the way the child is raised.

I still believe that the effort required to go from obese to normal is what keeps a lot of patients from actually taking action. To some people health, mobility, what they look like, ... just isn't worth that.

If I were to be a long time obese person, I think I wouldn't be able to put up the effort either. Even now I'm struggling with time management.

[Speaking as if I were really fat]
- I wouldn't do it for my looks, since I've felt bad about my exterior for all my life. I have such a low self-esteem that it prevents me from doing anything to get out of my current situation. Besides, I've been alone for all my life, I've gotten used to it.
- Health? It's a danger far, far away.
- Mobility, being able to move around, ... isn't all that important if all you do all day is sit, watch TV, read, surf the internet, ...
- I probably wouldn't like 'healthy' food. I'm used to getting instant gratification from fast food, TV-dinner or certain meals I'm used to prepare that don't take a lot of effort (mac and cheese, an omelet, cakemix, fishsticks, hamburgers, ...)
- I like food and I eat a lot. Actually, I could say I'm addicted to fat/sugar-rich foods. Not eating is going to be difficult.
- Maybe I'm a compulsive eater who suffers from some trauma (bullying?). I don't have any real hobbies, and eating kills time.

I know that if I would be overweight, it would be very difficult for me personally to get out of that vicious cycle. To us thin people, it's always easy to say it's easy.




Also, I think BMI makes sense. You use an extreme (a bodybuilder right before he has to perform). The BMI scale shouldn't be used as an absolute objective to reach, but it's a good indication of where you are in the spectrum. People should be aware that it gives distorted results for very tall and very short people, because weight and length don't scale in those extremes. I think it's a bit like an IQ-test. It gives some indication of a certain quality of a person, but is in no way a number that you should obsess over or take too seriously.
Last edited by Arglax; Apr 28, 2014 at 04:25 PM.
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