Originally Posted by ImmortalPig
Removing guns would definitely reduce the homicide rate, but it wouldn't solve the problem. An optimist might expect that removing guns would reduce 100% of homicides that would be committed with firearms. Sadly this would not be the case, the reduction would be far less than anticipated.
Is your argument that individual freedom to shoot projectiles at lethal speeds outweighs a significant statistical drop in murder rates, or are you just trying to say that being born in America inclines one to deadly violence?
Originally Posted by ImmortalPig
In a global context USA may have a homicide rate under the global average, but it has the highest of any 1st world nation, for example it's 4 times higher than the UK, and nearly 5 times that of Australia.
Their firearm related death rates are similarly high, beating all other 1st world nations, with 10 times as many firearm deaths as Australia, and 40 times that of the UK.
Both the UK and Australia have employed strict gun control and are more socially progressive.
Originally Posted by ImmortalPig
It's laughable to suggest USA is not exceptionally violent, these are not small margins we are talking about. This gun culture you speak of is a symptom not the cause. Would non-violent people desire weapons so badly? Would non-violent people use such weapons to deadly effect just because they had them? It's absurd to suggest that someone becomes violent just because they own a gun. When you pick up a knife in the kitchen to slice some carrot are you overcome with an urge to murder your family?
Ah, so it's not an issue of cultural or social influences, or opportunity and political policy, instead it is simply that because one lives in the United States they are naturally violent.
Buy TC for a great price here! http://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=240345
Buy VIP and Toriprime for a great price here! http://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=237249
Hey look more than two lines.
Buy VIP and Toriprime for a great price here! http://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=237249
Hey look more than two lines.
Originally Posted by Boredpayne
Is your argument that individual freedom to shoot projectiles at lethal speeds outweighs a significant statistical drop in murder rates, or are you just trying to say that being born in America inclines one to deadly violence?
Should people who are already violent be allowed to own deadly weapons?
And no I'm not saying that, I'd say it's nurture rather than nature.
Originally Posted by Boredpayne
Both the UK and Australia have employed strict gun control and are more socially progressive.
Exactly.
Originally Posted by Boredpayne
Ah, so it's not an issue of cultural or social influences, or opportunity and political policy, instead it is simply that because one lives in the United States they are naturally violent.
Nurture rather than nature. It's incomprehensible in any other 1st world country that a regular person would need to arm themselves with a deadly weapon. Even before bans were erected it's just not something that ever happened.
The average American doesn't think "this is insane, USA is not a warzone". The gap in thinking is just too big to be hand waved as "oh USA is just a bit backwards".
By the way, I think your argument style has become too defensive. You seek to answer 'easier' questions rather than confront. For example when I asked you if your disposition changes when you touch a knife you totally ignored it, and my entire paragraph, and choose to perform a strawman. But it's interesting to see you concede that other first world nations are more socially progressive and are able to perform gun control. I prefer your older style rather than this apologetic strawman defense style. Just my 2c.
Last edited by ImmortalPig; Jan 26, 2014 at 04:56 AM.
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
Originally Posted by ImmortalPig
Nurture rather than nature. It's incomprehensible in any other 1st world country that a regular person would need to arm themselves with a deadly weapon. Even before bans were erected it's just not something that ever happened.
The average American doesn't think "this is insane, USA is not a warzone". The gap in thinking is just too big to be hand waved as "oh USA is just a bit backwards".
So it IS an issue of cultural and social attitudes?
Buy TC for a great price here! http://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=240345
Buy VIP and Toriprime for a great price here! http://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=237249
Hey look more than two lines.
Buy VIP and Toriprime for a great price here! http://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=237249
Hey look more than two lines.
Originally Posted by Boredpayne
So it IS an issue of cultural and social attitudes?
Yes I just said that like 3 times in my post.
How are you not getting this?! Do you think Americans tear their way out of the womb with blood-lust in their eyes?!
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
If it's a cultural and social issue, you can change it. Because it's a cultural and social issue, regulation of guns can cause a change of the cultural climate.
Regardless of whether it's a symptom, treating the symptom of a cultural or social issue still combats the underlying cultural or social issue, because the symptom is an avenue to proliferate the spread of the culture. You don't stop the common cold by stopping the coughing and sneezing, but by reducing the symptoms you reduce the spread of the cold. The cold naturally gets killed off. Similarly, you may not treat the issue of America having a more violence-tolerant culture by clamping down on gun ownership, but you stop the spreading of the culture by acknowledging that the gun culture in America right now is toxic and dangerous, and trying to reign it in. By reducing the spread of a specific culture, you can cause the culture to die off.
It may sound borderline totalitarian or repressive to say some cultures are unwanted but, quite frankly, the American gun culture is one of the most uninformed, radical, and dangerous cultural groups in America, and I can safely say that its current state merits change. To be fair, there are rational and reasonable members within the gun culture, but there's a very loud and vocal population within the culture that is unreasonable, paranoid, unstable, but influential. A well-informed, well-regulated culture of guns is a safe culture, and could very well even be a socially-progressive culture. But the current American gun culture is none of that, and is maintained through an unreasonable fear of authority, lies, and propaganda.
Regardless of whether it's a symptom, treating the symptom of a cultural or social issue still combats the underlying cultural or social issue, because the symptom is an avenue to proliferate the spread of the culture. You don't stop the common cold by stopping the coughing and sneezing, but by reducing the symptoms you reduce the spread of the cold. The cold naturally gets killed off. Similarly, you may not treat the issue of America having a more violence-tolerant culture by clamping down on gun ownership, but you stop the spreading of the culture by acknowledging that the gun culture in America right now is toxic and dangerous, and trying to reign it in. By reducing the spread of a specific culture, you can cause the culture to die off.
It may sound borderline totalitarian or repressive to say some cultures are unwanted but, quite frankly, the American gun culture is one of the most uninformed, radical, and dangerous cultural groups in America, and I can safely say that its current state merits change. To be fair, there are rational and reasonable members within the gun culture, but there's a very loud and vocal population within the culture that is unreasonable, paranoid, unstable, but influential. A well-informed, well-regulated culture of guns is a safe culture, and could very well even be a socially-progressive culture. But the current American gun culture is none of that, and is maintained through an unreasonable fear of authority, lies, and propaganda.
nyan :3
Youtube Channel i sometimes post videos of other games
Youtube Channel i sometimes post videos of other games
i really do not understand you at all.
