Originally Posted by Ele
You said people should pay to have access with TC, they should 'win it' in an event, or they should pay for it by some other means. Because that's somehow fairer... Yeah.
I said whether or not they pay for it. The other alternatives were just me ballparking, an event to bring back wibbles and give people access (if it were decided to be opt-in) is not a bad idea. I just think if we're doing something to bring it back we might as well make a meal out of it.
Originally Posted by Ele
You know, every board is already opt-in. No one is forcing precious little petals to post or read threads there or anywhere else. It's all voluntary.
I hear you, but we have different opinions on what "opt-in" is. Boards like wibbles bring a lot of blowback and while it would be nice if everyone could enjoy it, a lot of people don't. It's not uncommon for legitimate cases of harassment and so on to arise and while it is not something you might care to consider, our staff generally does. Wibbles has always had these issues historically and attempts at even creating boards like it (TP) has yielded similar results. It would be naive to think the same might not happen and whilst its one thing to ignore say, the market board, it's another to ignore a board of people that are harassing you.
Originally Posted by Ele
They shouldn't have their very minority opinion parroted and championed by the community manager. Having the community steered in that sort of direction into the future is a sure-fire way to turn this place to shit.
I'm sure doom-saying might get a reaction from other pro-wibblers but I'd like to remind you that we've been down this road before and... we're still here. It's almost the oldest Toribash meme at this point to say stuff like this. That said, I don't think that I'm "championing the minority", I think I'm considering all avenues of implementation - like a community manager should. There's nothing unfair about making the board opt-in that you've raised outside of the vice grip assumption that you have on the idea we're going to nickel and dime the entry fee, which I doubt would be the case at all. If the "safe spacers" were the minority you might not have seen the old wibbles with so many added restrictions towards the end, where one word posts and bashing threads were banned, "above user" threads were restricted, posts with "a bunch of space" were infractable, etc. You act like responding to complaints is something we've only just started to do.
Originally Posted by wibblefox
If you want to avoid theoretical wibble drama why don't you theoretically not read or post on the board? It seems that staff are hyper sensitive to this kind of thing, previously some argued that threads/posts they don't like should be deleted immediately. This feels like the same kind of suggestion. Is there anything stopping you from not visiting a sub you won't want to visit? I know I sure as heck don't visit a lot of subs, that is my way of "opting out".
That's fair. I think people should be encouraged to not visit boards that they're not interested in, but I think there's a difference between that and not visiting a board as volatile as wibbles can be. There's not many people here that will stand for harassment even if it's in a board they normally would ignore and there's no reason why they should. Probably something a lot of the nostalgic users have forgotten is that those types of rules were enforced due to the fact that people complained so often. I feel that it's a lot easier on everyone if we say to those users "well, you opted in on that content" if they complain about it, rather than the opposite.
Originally Posted by wibblefox
TP/VIP is not opt in it is pay walled, so it's a terrible analogy in the first place. Are you suggesting something like small said? This seems to me to be just another idea for the sake of giving staff work to do...
TP/VIP is opt-in, it's just done via. a paywall. There's plenty of ways to handle opt-in stuff, the easiest would have it be a disabled-by-default board unless you subscribe to it. Regarding staff workload - if you think that reintroducing wibbles isn't another thing that's going to give staff work to do you're sorely mistaken. Either way, no matter how we do it and if we do it at all I'd like to reiterate that this is just my opinion, no means am I saying "this is the way we must do it" and I am open to other avenues of introduction of the board, again, if it happens.
collect snots from the nose
You ignored a very important part of what I said.
So again, we are all perfectly capable of simply minimising sections of the forums. People don't even have to have it visible and taking up space on their index. Or like SmallBowl said, people could PM a higher-up to get access to it. If they find themselves overloaded with work in adding all these people... Well maybe that's a message that it was a dumb idea to make it 'opt-in' in the first place, and nobody else actually shares these 'safe-space' sentiments.
Mate, atm over 75% of the community wants it back. People aren't going to shit on you for bringing it back, they're going to shit on you for not bringing it back.
I get that these are just your current thoughts and they don't represent actual policy.
So again, we are all perfectly capable of simply minimising sections of the forums. People don't even have to have it visible and taking up space on their index. Or like SmallBowl said, people could PM a higher-up to get access to it. If they find themselves overloaded with work in adding all these people... Well maybe that's a message that it was a dumb idea to make it 'opt-in' in the first place, and nobody else actually shares these 'safe-space' sentiments.
Originally Posted by Gynx
Boards like wibbles bring a lot of blowback and while it would be nice if everyone could enjoy it, a lot of people don't.
Mate, atm over 75% of the community wants it back. People aren't going to shit on you for bringing it back, they're going to shit on you for not bringing it back.
I get that these are just your current thoughts and they don't represent actual policy.
Last edited by Ele; Sep 19, 2016 at 06:42 AM.
Originally Posted by Ele
You ignored a very important part of what I said.
So again, we are all perfectly capable of simply minimising sections of the forums. People don't even have to have it visible and taking up space on their index. Or like SmallBowl said, people could PM a higher-up to get access to it. If they find themselves overloaded with work in adding all these people... Well maybe that's a message that it was a dumb idea to make it 'opt-in' in the first place, and nobody else actually shares these 'safe-space' sentiments.
I didn't ignore that at all. It was just echoed by wibblefox who I replied to with this:
Originally Posted by Gynx
That's fair. I think people should be encouraged to not visit boards that they're not interested in, but I think there's a difference between that and not visiting a board as volatile as wibbles can be. There's not many people here that will stand for harassment even if it's in a board they normally would ignore and there's no reason why they should. Probably something a lot of the nostalgic users have forgotten is that those types of rules were enforced due to the fact that people complained so often. I feel that it's a lot easier on everyone if we say to those users "well, you opted in on that content" if they complain about it, rather than the opposite.
To elaborate on the last part, I feel like it's a bad idea to pass the buck on users aren't cool with being harassed/fucked with and by having it be opt-in it'd be far easier to root out those who choose to be offended.
Originally Posted by Gynx
Mate, atm over 75% of the community wants it back.
"75% of people who quote polls on the internet think they're a valid metric of assessment, 100% of them are wrong." - Tupac Shakur
Originally Posted by Ele
People aren't going to shit on you for bringing it back, they're going to shit on you for not bringing it back.
Believe me, people will complain no matter which side of the fence they are stood. I'm the least bit concerned about the people who are going to "shit on" other people, they are probably not open to rational non-biased discussion in the first place. I'm currently entertaining the idea that we can bring wibbles back despite not really wanting it back at all. I doubt the "people" you reference were open to meeting the opposition half way in the first place.
collect snots from the nose
Originally Posted by Gynx
"75% of people who quote polls on the internet think they're a valid metric of assessment, 100% of them are wrong." - Tupac Shakur
Ele: "3/4 of us want it back"
Gynx: *ignores democracy, memes it up, trivialises community input*
Originally Posted by Gynx
I'm currently entertaining the idea that we can bring wibbles back despite *me not really wanting it back at all.
Fixed.
I am glad though, really I am, that you're coming around to the idea of having it come back.
Last edited by Ele; Sep 19, 2016 at 07:08 AM.
Originally Posted by Gynx
"75% of people who quote polls on the internet think they're a valid metric of assessment, 100% of them are wrong." - Tupac Shakur
here:
"As of ~5 AM GMT over 75% of toribash players who noticed and made the decision to participate in the S&I poll voted in favour of reintroducing wibbles"
is perfectly accurate.
Public optional polling typically attracts people with strong opinions, not necessarily with bearing on whether those opinions are positive or negative *so that shouldn't have a bearing on results
was a bit quick on the trigger there huh
Last edited by pouffy; Sep 19, 2016 at 07:23 AM.