Golem IV - Rise of MELOG
I guess as an optimist, it's hard for me to have a "realist" pov to help speculate without believing that those who get by, who might very well be pessimistic, aren't actually just optimistic but considerate.
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I believe optimism is the optimal state of being.I do not necessarily associate optimism with "good".

You wont be let down fully because you're always looking on the bright side.
You're able to see and recognize more and more opportunities to increase the standard of your current situation.
It's the most productive for societal growth:
i.e. Ford had the dream of the Model T.
MLK had a dream of strives towards equality.
Great empires were built on optimism. Great empires were toppled on the same principle.

None of these things would be possible with a true pessimist pov.
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re·al·ism
/ˈrē(ə)ˌlizəm/
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noun
1.
the attitude or practice of accepting a situation as it is and being prepared to deal with it accordingly.

having to accept unfortunate situations is inevitable, i.e. death, breakups, losses, etc
However, I dont really believe that realism is a true definition of a way of thinking or perceiving things.
This definition makes it feel as if realism can be both optimistic or pessimistic, depending on which you are.
You can see death as a tragic event or a joyful celebration. both are realistic.

If we're saying it is a valid definition:
I dont believe this (realism) way of thinking is bad, It achieves the same results as optimism, but at a slower rate.
In these cases Optimists are "ahead of their time," often ridiculed until later proven right by the masses or ridiculed for having poor motives.
Last edited by 2WC; Feb 11, 2020 at 05:42 AM.
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You are forgetting one very important thing, you manifest what you think. If you always think this day is shit, this job is shit, my life is shit, everything is shit, it's going to be shit forever, and you'll be sad. If you think today is a good day, I am alive, I'm healthy, I might have some setbacks, but thank God I was born American with opportunities for greatness, my life is pretty good, I can do anything, everything will be fine, if it's not fine it's not the end, then you will enjoy living and will get a lot more out of life.

Happiness doesn't have to be money drugs and fucking, it could just be enjoying having a family and friends and long term success.




My grandparents survived ww2 in the ussr faced starvation every day and were part of the only 4 survivors after the war out of their combined 18 person families. They had 7 brothers and sisters each. They were happy people and enjoyed their lives to their 90's in my grandfather's case and late 70's due to health complications in my grandmother's case.




The secret to their happiness was not giving a fuck, their mindset was eh this ain't shit compared to ww2, life is a cake walk now. So they did what others couldn't and lived happily. Their mindset was 100 percent fuck it Yolo it goes the way it goes, ima try my best. Sure there were ups and downs but overall they were happy, nobody can be happy forever without ever cracking a frown
Last edited by sirkill1; Feb 11, 2020 at 05:45 AM.
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Originally Posted by pusga View Post
As for "big situations", a pessimist might fare better and therefore be happier when it counts, but an optimist can argue that they're generally happier in their day-to-day life. Even if the pessimist strikes the life changing job opportunity, they'll spend their working days concerned and cautious. I know 80+ year old people who are frugal, skeptical and pessimistic.

Agree with most of what you said, but just here I'd like to point out that I did make the distinction that it's probably not best to live your day-to-day live with a pessimistic outlook. As I said, I reckon having properly calibrated expectations (realism) is probably best for day-to-day living.

I'm not sure if an optimist would be happier than a realist, day-to-day. It's an interesting discussion. I would think that the optimists would be constantly disappointed (since their expectations are constantly having a collision with reality).


Originally Posted by 2WC
You're able to see and recognize more and more opportunities to increase the standard of your current situation.
It's the most productive for societal growth:
i.e. Ford had the dream of the Model T.
MLK had a dream of strives towards equality.
Great empires were built on optimism. Great empires were toppled on the same principle.

None of these things would be possible with a true pessimist pov.

Low expectations would seem to result in low standards, I agree. Conversely, high expectations = high standards. There's a quote that I've always liked "Shoot for the stars, so even if you fail, you still land on top of the earth". As I said above, I think in day-to-day living, it's probably best to have your expectations in line with reality.

I'd contend also though, that holding high expectations has it's own set of problems. There's a pressure associated with that - A tension to do with your expectations. And while it's good to aim to be great, not everyone can be Bill Gates. 98% of new businesses fail. When you find yourself at a disconnect between where you think you 'ought' to be (based on high expectations) and where you currently are, it's easy to despair. Just how sustainable is eternal optimism, for most people? Pressure (through high expectations) can make diamonds sure, but pressure can also break shit.

Originally Posted by 2wc
I dont believe this (realism) way of thinking is bad, It achieves the same results as optimism, but at a slower rate.

You might be right here, but I think there is some bad (unhappiness) that comes from marching ahead at this increased rate. Depending on the person, this rate might be sustainable, but I'm sure that for some it won't be.

Originally Posted by sirkill
You are forgetting one very important thing, you manifest what you think. If you always think this day is shit, this job is shit, my life is shit, everything is shit, it's going to be shit forever, and you'll be sad. If you think today is a good day, I am alive, I'm healthy, I might have some setbacks, but thank God I was born American with opportunities for greatness, my life is pretty good, I can do anything, everything will be fine, if it's not fine it's not the end, then you will enjoy living and will get a lot more out of life.

Yeah, with day-to-day living, pessimism ain't healthy. As I said in my OP, it can probably delude you into depression. As I've said to 2WC though, I'm not sure if day-to-day optimism is entirely great either.

"I was born American with opportunities for greatness".... So what does that mean if (when you look around realistically) your life isn't great? You've squandered your opportunities? That's not great. This sort of leads into meritocratic thinking, which I'd argue, ain't too helpful. If your life is great and you're happy and earning a lot of money (and have great friends and family) it's because you merited that (you deserved that). You put in the time and effort and because of that, you are duly rewarded. So what if your life is shit? Meritocratic thinking would have you believe it's because you're shit. You merit having a shit life. That's a cruel way of looking at your own life (and others). Jerry, who lives in a trailer, has a shit life because he didn't put the time or effort in. It can't be that Jerry might have a shit life for a variety of other factors (factors not related to personal effort).

If you have the world saying 'Look at all the opportunities you have, you can be anything' and then you look around and realistically evaluate your own life, that can easily lead to self-loathing. I suppose you could say 'Well just don't realistically evaluate your own life then', but I don't know how long I could realistically keep up that sort of wilful self-delusion - Maybe it would be easier for others who are used to that sort of thing.
Last edited by Ele; Feb 11, 2020 at 07:46 AM.
Nah Jerry should recognize that he's unlucky, and strive to better his luck in whatever way he can, he should try to be thankful for what he has, he's got a trailer and he isn't homeless. plenty of folk who live in trailer parks are poor and happy.

It's not the fact that you had opportunities and wasted them, it's the fact that you could be so much worse off, and that there is always hope to improve your lot in life that makes you a happy person.




What is happiness? It's fulfillment in life. If you never strive to achieve life goals and fulfillment, whatever those may be, you can never be happy. You can always adjust your goals too so you have something to strive for. If you live life without purpose, you will be unhappy. Even the severely mentally handicapped who are happy have a purpose, slather shit on wall, check happiness increases, lick window,check happiness increases, pick nose, check happiness increases.


I concede that if you constantly think on your failures you'll be sad, so don't think about them, think what did you learn and how do I move forward? What can I do to prevent failure in the future?




I'd also argue that the alternative to you reap what you sow is far more grim, the world is a lotto and its chosen to fuck you.
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