Originally Posted by Maya
Why is a "specifically biological" woman needed as a role model for a child? For one... gay couples raise fine children. There's no concrete need for a "role model" of a specific body type, presentation, or gender. Just teach your children good stuff. Secondly... a trans woman is just as good a role model of a woman as a cis woman.
If you want a biological child, just get a surrogate mother? Would you refuse to date a woman you truly loved because they're sterile?
I also caution against using the term "transsexual" from here on out. You're referring to trans people who are physically/medically transitioning.
A lot of women, too, want their own offspring. Of course there are exceptions to this argument, as it does for nearly every argument out there in this regard, but generally the chances of me being with a trans whatever seem awfully slim right now. I have yet to find someone attractive, either in real life or on the web.
Also, yes, I am referring to trans people who are in medical transition. I don't give a fuck about what others do for fun or identity, just don't push your ideologies on me thank you very much.
Originally Posted by Maya
Just btw it is "trans people." I don't think I've ever seen "transpeople" before and I assume it was a mistake, but it made me chuckle.
It's how grammar works in Sweden, but I'm glad that my lack of multilingual grammar skills is giving you a sense of humor on my cost.
Originally Posted by Maya
If you're using this as an excuse to misgender people... the argument is that you're inconsiderate and don't care about how your words affect others. Pretty weak argument I'd say.
Did you not read? I have yet to misgender someone. And yes, I must confess that I don't put into consideration the people who I don't indirectly interfere with. I have my own life to worry about, and I don't give too many shits about someone else ideologies, especially when they promote medical intervention to people who aren't in need of them.
Originally Posted by Maya
Gender dysphoria is not needed to be trans, or to feel more comfortable with another set of pronouns, or to physically/medically transition, or to change presentation. Those that believe gender dysphoria is required for any of these things are called truscum. Just let trans people be who they want to be... use the pronouns that make them feel comfortable. As I've said countless times in this thread... gender doesn't necessarily have to have any connection to the body or presentation; it can just be identity, the societal role, the way others think about you or stereotype you, etc.
I repeat, I don't give a fuck whether or not you want to be a man or woman. If you want identity, I'd suggest you do something to earn it, not jump on a doctors table.
Originally Posted by Maya
What authority are you on how trans people feel and what is best for us? Why do you have an opinion on it in the first place?
What authority are you on how we should refer to you as? I have a lot of friends in the world, and I didn't get them by telling them how they should legally refer to me.
You define me by derogatory terms. Do I feel compelled to be more "tolerant"? I think of myself as extremely tolerant already. But what you're looking for seems to be acceptancy and compliance.
Originally Posted by Maya
Have you ever felt the extreme pain that gender dysphoria delivers?
Make a wild ass witty guess and chuckle. You're good at those.
Originally Posted by Maya
Have you ever talked to trans people about their thoughts on these surgeries? These surgeries (there are like... 2-3 per physical transition at most, not a "sea") really do help and they're currently the only way to alleviate a lot of the specific dysphoria many of us feel. They're getting safer and safer too. They're currently really really good actually, barely any risk whatsoever. What alternative could you possibly propose?
Yes, I have talked to trans people (as many as you can find in normie territory) about their thoughts on surgeries, and most seem think of them as their unconditioned salvation. (2-3 surgeries per person is a "sea", and completely unwarranted if you don't have a medical condition to cure.)
If you want alternatives to how to beat gender dysphoria, talk to a doctor, not me. I'm here for mutual understanding, not to win a debate.
It appears to me that you paint me as an opponent, which just isn't true. I have met several trans people, drank with them and whatnot.
You have my tolerance, but my love, acceptance, or support is something every person need to earn for himself.
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His lack of support isn’t bigotry, you do realize how many people in this world don’t even support homeless people and such, just because you people are transgender or non binary or what ever you human beings are don’t get the support that you guys want and such does not mean you can go shitting on others and putting ur ideals onto them to do so. I can guarantee you now just because someone is focused on themselves and don’t care about you guys and whatever you guys do DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE BIGOTS OR WHAT NOT.
Originally Posted by Maya
Nobody is doing it "for fun." Transgenderism is not some take-it-or-leave-it ideology, it is here and it is very real. Not subscribing to it means you have prejudice against a minority of people who cannot help being transgender. I'm pushing good morals at you, helping you remove your ignorance, and you're resisting that for some reason.
I have a prejudice against people trying to tell me what or what not to say. That's about it, and whether or not its good morals you're pushing is highly subjective.
Originally Posted by Maya
Refer to my first point. Those that get the surgeries are also very much in need of them.
People with Gender Dysphoria I presume.
Originally Posted by Maya
I actually identify as neither a man nor a woman, but non-binary. Nobody has to "earn" their identity. Did you earn your identity as a man? No, it is inherent in you. Our identities are inherent in us. Also, not all trans people seek medical intervention, but that is not to say that medical intervention does not help us immensely.
Firstly, I still don't care about other peoples identity. Secondly, it's good that not all of you undergo surgery. It's not as risk free as you would say, albeit better now than before.
There's a lot of people with regrets and still a lot of suicide/suicide attempts. Find the treatment for you and your friends, that's all I can suggest.
Originally Posted by Maya
I am me, the ultimate authority on my own pronouns and identity. You're the ultimate authority on yours. It's very easy to understand.
Aye, my mind, my choice of words. Happy to see us agree. Even so you want me to accept anyone without critique, which is a tad unrealistic imo.
Originally Posted by Maya
I am looking for acceptance, understanding, removal of prejudice, etc. Tolerance is an insanely low bar.
Tolerance is what you get, and you get it free of charge. That's a pretty good deal in my book?
Originally Posted by Maya
Gender dysphoria is a legitimate condition and the surgeries help.
I didn't say that surgeries should be banned.
Originally Posted by Maya
I already linked Dr. Powers (the doctor with the most knowledge of transgenderism in the fuckin world) powerpoint which you can read through yourself. I linked it in a post a few pages ago.
The person with most knowledge about transgenderism is an assistant professor at Yale with his own clinic? Google tells me he's a general practitioner as well.
Can you link a few studies he's done? Not trying to discredit him, just curious.
Originally Posted by Maya
Trans people don't need to earn your acceptance. We're a minority which cannot help who we are. Your lack of support is bigotry. I do indeed see you as my opponent. You've come here, read what a very knowledgeable trans person who's been studying this shit for years and years, lived it all myself, talked to tons of other trans people about it all, etc. has to say about transgenderism... and you, as a cis man with almost no knowledge on the subject whatsoever, have said "nah, I think I know better, trans people are wrong." It's disgusting.
Everyone needs to earn my acceptance. Do you accept everyone? There's a big world out there, and it's full of people with mean ideas. It's appalling to me that you think I should agree with whatever you say without being critical. I understand that gender dysphoria is a horrible disorder, and I can't remember which study it was, but it showed you guys as suicidal as the jews after the holocaust. I'm also not saying trans people are wrong, please don't put words in my mouth. I say you're wrong for telling me how I should think, and I think you're a cunt.
Last edited by Swepples; Jan 13, 2020 at 09:39 PM.
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Originally Posted by Maya
Some of the things you say are harmful to a harmless minority. You obviously need to be told what not to say. Do you know what being receptive to change and restrictions is called? It's learning. It's becoming more progressive. Refusing either of them out of sheer egoism is pretty much the definition of bigotry.
It's also called being naive, or gullible.
Originally Posted by Maya
"I don't give a shit about what other people say." "I'll call em like I see em, don't care how they feel." Again... egoism and a severe lack of compassion or consideration. Just because your identity is not important to you doesn't mean it's not incredibly important to some.
I'm an egoist? I just don't have time for all the millions of minorities. I prefer to put my compassion on those I love and care about. Sorry you're not on the list.
Also, my identity is important to me. Your identity however, is not.
Originally Posted by Maya
There is an extremely small percentage of trans people with regrets about their medical transition. Making it harder for the rest of us to undergo these things because of this small percentage leads to a lot more suffering. Instead... maybe education on gender and transgenderism in schools or from family would help
Originally Posted by [URL
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detransition[/URL]]
The 2015 U.S. Transgender Surveyfound that 8% of respondents who had transitioned reported having ever detransitioned, and 62% of that group had later returned to living in a trans gender role.
I bet you haven't read this, since you're so "tolerant" (only toward your own ideals, not feeling much tolerance from you personally, maybe you should set your bar even lower?). If you want a better source, just google.
Originally Posted by Maya
Why do you feel the need to critique anyone's pronouns or gender identity? Are you going to give them a test to see if they're lying to you about it before you use start gendering them correctly? Trans people are being genuine! We're not lying... and assuming that some of us are lying about our gender is just more bigotry.
Why would I give them a test? How would that assumption come from reading my posts? I just don't feel anything toward trans people.
Originally Posted by Maya
Harmless groups do not need to earn your acceptance. They have no reason not to have your support unless they are actually doing harm to anyone. Do black people, as a whole, have to earn your acceptance? That sounds absolutely ridiculous and exceptionally egotistical.
This is why I dislike identity politics. Is there no individual responsibility in your mind? Is everything about race and groups?
EVERY man, woman and in between must individually give me a reason to get my support.
Originally Posted by Maya
I accept any group which does not harm others, which is either neutral in its ideals (or ideal-less) or positive in them! I accept anyone and everyone until they're proven harmful. It's innocent until proven guilty... not the other way around.
I don't know about the opinions of trans people so I wont comment on them.
Personally I think your opinions are harmful.
Originally Posted by Maya
You know very little about transgenderism. Maybe actually do some research and reach out to some trans folk before you express your criticisms publicly.
I came here with a question to see your perspective on things. Almost instantly I learned that I was a bigot, egoist, uninformed, inconsiderate and ignorant. I think I recall disgusting as well. Might have missed something, please remind me.
Originally Posted by Maya
Suicide rates are very high. This is mainly because of the lack of acceptance of trans folk and the difficulty in getting the required medical help. Also, I'd appreciate if you'd refrain from referencing that event from here on out. It's alright that you mentioned it this time, you didn't know, but I don't like getting reminded of it as often as I am.
No, we must remember all the atrocities we have collectively committed as human beings, how else can we avoid them in the future?
Originally Posted by Maya
You think things which are prejudiced, uninformed, and harmful to trans people. I'll call you out for saying those things and I'm right to do so! Take it to heart, do some learning, and adjust your view as any good, progressive person does.
I would consider myself as a decent human being. You ask for my love, support and acceptance, yet you give me nothing but denouncing slanders in return.
It's true that I don't know much about trans people, but I'm sure of one thing. You're still a cunt.
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