Original Post
Rule Change in Private/Public Rooms
Hi,
We’ve recently updated the rules regarding private space and public space. I’m writing this semi-brief note to send the message along. Below will be a few points on why we made the change, what was actually changed, and finally, how it affects everyone going forward. You can find the rules in the FAQ.
Why
With the implementation of in-game reports, private v. public rooms were always a hot topic when looking at the reports. Tori-Agents look through game chat logs and replays to come to their verdict(s). “Was this a private room?” “What can we do about it?” were frequently asked questions among the team. The staff team discussed this and came to the conclusion to amend the rules. We felt that, through means of technicalities, “allowing” members to break rules because they’re in their own custom server, isn’t right. We’re not trying to shaft people from having fun, rather, keeping everything fun and friendly for everyone. If something is reported, in-game reports, or our traditional methods of sending a screenshot in, we deal with it.
What
For everyone, these guidelines should be common sense behavior, typical to everyday interactions with real people. Here’s the new rules paired by the old rules. Please take the time to read.
Going Forward
This isn’t to get rid of private rooms, you’re free to have your fun. Just be mindful of the others joining in. We strive to keep all platforms of Toribash a fun and friendly environment to want to be in. If you see behavior that clearly breaks the rules, report it. After that, ignore them using the ignore feature ingame. If you have feedback, you’re free to post, we’d love to hear it with the intentions of trying to improve.
We’ve recently updated the rules regarding private space and public space. I’m writing this semi-brief note to send the message along. Below will be a few points on why we made the change, what was actually changed, and finally, how it affects everyone going forward. You can find the rules in the FAQ.
Why
With the implementation of in-game reports, private v. public rooms were always a hot topic when looking at the reports. Tori-Agents look through game chat logs and replays to come to their verdict(s). “Was this a private room?” “What can we do about it?” were frequently asked questions among the team. The staff team discussed this and came to the conclusion to amend the rules. We felt that, through means of technicalities, “allowing” members to break rules because they’re in their own custom server, isn’t right. We’re not trying to shaft people from having fun, rather, keeping everything fun and friendly for everyone. If something is reported, in-game reports, or our traditional methods of sending a screenshot in, we deal with it.
What
For everyone, these guidelines should be common sense behavior, typical to everyday interactions with real people. Here’s the new rules paired by the old rules. Please take the time to read.
Originally Posted by New
- Harassment
Harassing (by insulting, name-calling, slurs, bandwagoning, flaming, trolling, and so on) other members of the game for any reason is not allowed. We wish to maintain a friendly environment, and any flaming or harassment may result in a ban. This includes any homophobic or racial slurs in any public space in the community
"Public space" is defined as:
Game - Any room that is not protected by a password.
Forum - The entire forum with the exception of Wibbles and clan PRIVATE boards.
If it's brought to moderator's attention and found that your language disrupts the integrity of the environment we're setting; warnings, infractions, or bans will take place. Try to solve issues yourself if you can. We can't possibly be there for every single instance. Asking to politely stop is a start.
Originally Posted by Old
Harassing (by insulting, name-calling, slurs, bandwagoning, flaming, trolling, and so on) other members of the game for any reason is not allowed. We wish to maintain a friendly environment, and any flaming or harassment may result in a ban. This includes any homophobic or racial slurs in any public space in the community - for more information read here.
And if you follow the link in the Old rules, this part, I'll put that in a spoiler
Addition
Going Forward
This isn’t to get rid of private rooms, you’re free to have your fun. Just be mindful of the others joining in. We strive to keep all platforms of Toribash a fun and friendly environment to want to be in. If you see behavior that clearly breaks the rules, report it. After that, ignore them using the ignore feature ingame. If you have feedback, you’re free to post, we’d love to hear it with the intentions of trying to improve.
Last edited by ed; Jan 21, 2020 at 08:36 AM.
Reason: clarity
بسم الله الرحمان الرحيم
Hi, I'll provide answers to most of the feedback as best as I can, if I can. Please don’t feel any ill will towards me if I haven’t quoted you directly, I either have nothing to say for that matter, or it’s summed up in another response someone has already said. As for quotes, I not trying to respond to YOU when I quote you, I’m using the language in a general sense and making a response to the overarching ideas. If you want to talk to me directly, you can message me on the forum.
General thoughts while skimming, before reading all the individual responses: You’re looking too deep into this. Trash talk/banter is fine. Private rooms do still exist. Users can report what they like, doesn’t mean it will be handled. Don’t use slurs, don’t be a bigot, and you’ll be fine for the majority, of well, everything.
It’s a little ironic seeing the banter and chat go around calling each other cunts and dumbasses while people also saying these rules are going to ruin the game. This is exactly what people are fighting about but It’s all perfectly fine and acceptable, it’s tasteful, context, yada-yada.
We do apologize for not getting this out faster, that is my fault. You have that liberty to ban people in your own rooms, do it if you want.
First off, as it’s not that important, everyone knows what idioms are and that wasn’t offensive.
You aren't responsible regarding how people feel. Yeah, people should probably leave if they're offended. But if people can join so easily, does that sound like a private server? They don't know what they're potentially getting in to. Set a password, VIP your friends, set maxclients, now that’s a private server. And as an aside, we know what game banter is and straight bigotry is. Trash talking is okay, when tasteful. We understand the nature of the game and telling someone, "Damn you fucking suck, lol", is gernerally okay.
People can report what they think is offensive, doesn't mean anything will happen with all said reports. It's up to the moderation team that handles reports to decide if what was said was offensive. Offensive being subjective, sure, but I can assure you that if you're not blatantly threatening, using slurs, stalking, badgering, you will be fine.
@sir
Yes you can.
This
The report feature for most is a way to discourage the use of slurs, it’s another measure to be taken. Sure, as a normal user, you couldn’t stop it. If it offends you, you’re free to report. You also have the option to not report it, if it’s something that doesn’t offend you. Your call. Part of the rule change is to give a more specific element to what a private room actually is. It’s on the server list and I click to join, I’m in now. Doesn’t feel too private to me seeing as entered with zero effort. Lock with passwords, set maxclients, VIP people, let people enter who you want to enter. Now that’s private.
Yes, this.
Context is taken, it’s looked at with almost every decision. There’s real offense to be had with that word. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. But yes, please stop and don’t use the word. You can also put a password, put maxclients matching you and your friend count, then VIP anyone else you would like to enter. Then, there’s no way for others to intrude on your fun, Sounds like a private room to me, where others can’t get offended because they can not physically join. And if it does still get reported, well one of your friends is a narc and it might be time to get better friends.
You can kick people from your room, “your room” meaning your PUBLIC room as it doesn’t have the right commands to make it private yet and random people can just join. You can also ban people, you wouldn’t get in trouble for that. Don’t use the slur. The other half, about lecturing and kicking, fine, even with the ‘dumbfuck’.
Calling someone trash at the game is fine.
Report what you think is reportable, it doesn’t mean everything that gets reported has actions to be taken.
You can speak your mind.
I think everyone is looking a bit too much into this. You can call someone trash at the game, “You fucking suck”, “Holy shit, you’re bad” Don’t call someone a faggot, don’t call someone a nigger, don’t call someone slur #3. There are levels to this however, which should be pretty common sense. If you’re following someone from server to server, hours on end, spamming you’re bad. ACTUALLY ruining their experience… you see the context?
General thoughts while skimming, before reading all the individual responses: You’re looking too deep into this. Trash talk/banter is fine. Private rooms do still exist. Users can report what they like, doesn’t mean it will be handled. Don’t use slurs, don’t be a bigot, and you’ll be fine for the majority, of well, everything.
It’s a little ironic seeing the banter and chat go around calling each other cunts and dumbasses while people also saying these rules are going to ruin the game. This is exactly what people are fighting about but It’s all perfectly fine and acceptable, it’s tasteful, context, yada-yada.
Originally Posted by skizz
I would have liked to have known about this rule before it got implemented. Time to ban every random cunt that joins my servers.
We do apologize for not getting this out faster, that is my fault. You have that liberty to ban people in your own rooms, do it if you want.
Originally Posted by DrGonz
Good to know that I'm responsible for other peoples' feelings, thanks for the heads up. Clearly the system works great in the forums and there is no bias.
How about ignoring them be the first step before trying to get them banned. If you join a room and get upset at the language, maybe that's your own damn problem and you could, say, leave.
Or maybe if there's a joke you could, say, pull the stick out your butt. Oh ffs now I have to point out that that's an old saying and I'm not being a bigot or doing targeted harassment. Oh geez, it's almost like what's offensive is subjective, and people could abuse the report function especially if they happen to have a special relationship with staff where they get to decide what's objectively offensive based on their subjective views.
What a quandary. I'm sure this will go down well with the community.
First off, as it’s not that important, everyone knows what idioms are and that wasn’t offensive.
You aren't responsible regarding how people feel. Yeah, people should probably leave if they're offended. But if people can join so easily, does that sound like a private server? They don't know what they're potentially getting in to. Set a password, VIP your friends, set maxclients, now that’s a private server. And as an aside, we know what game banter is and straight bigotry is. Trash talking is okay, when tasteful. We understand the nature of the game and telling someone, "Damn you fucking suck, lol", is gernerally okay.
People can report what they think is offensive, doesn't mean anything will happen with all said reports. It's up to the moderation team that handles reports to decide if what was said was offensive. Offensive being subjective, sure, but I can assure you that if you're not blatantly threatening, using slurs, stalking, badgering, you will be fine.
Originally Posted by DashieR
mabye no one would feel bothered or harass if you focused on making the ignore button work in game when i clearly doesn't work still i. 2020
@sir
Originally Posted by Insanity
Can we still curse? Like say fuck and bitch and stuff like that?this world is going to shit. PC shit right here.Theyre pulling a zuck on us)
Yes you can.
Originally Posted by basic
as long as they dont ban stupid shit and context gets taken into consideration im fine with it. only direct and constant harassment should get banned
This
Originally Posted by DrGonz
I hate hearing the N word, I discourage it around me. That's just something that I find particularly gross. But kids love saying the N word. I can't stop them, but I can discourage it in my circle, among my friends, among my clan, in discord, in my private servers. If I enter a room where people are saying words I don't like, I can leave. If someone enters my room saying words I don't like, there are a number of measure that can be taken. If someone in my clan is harassing someone else, the clan can vote to remove that person, or the leaders can take unilateral action (though in fl0w it would be the prior).
The report feature for most is a way to discourage the use of slurs, it’s another measure to be taken. Sure, as a normal user, you couldn’t stop it. If it offends you, you’re free to report. You also have the option to not report it, if it’s something that doesn’t offend you. Your call. Part of the rule change is to give a more specific element to what a private room actually is. It’s on the server list and I click to join, I’m in now. Doesn’t feel too private to me seeing as entered with zero effort. Lock with passwords, set maxclients, VIP people, let people enter who you want to enter. Now that’s private.
Originally Posted by lily
I love that we can call people out on their bs and not get crucified for it! It's just not good that people like you call people f*gs and shit, I think that's where the line is being crossed (at slurs and things that actually offend people). Is that the middle ground where we're all standing on?
Yes, this.
Originally Posted by Ele
So the new rules state that you'll get punished if "your language disrupts the integrity of the [friendly] environment" that staff are trying to establish. So..
Got a genuine question here. If context is being taken into account and I'm being all friendly and calling my niggas niggas and whatnot, and then some snowflake joins the server and says they're offended by this, do I have to stop? I'm being friendly with my buds. If anything, this snowflake fella is disrupting the formally friendly environment by tryna turn it all into some political 'wah-wah' shit. Can I say 'fuck off nigga' and kickban him? Am I even allowed to kickban them (without the 'slur') now? Would I get in trouble for that? @Staff, response?
In reality, I'd probably handle the snowflake by lecturing him on the importance of context and intent (get into a conversation), but if the snowflake continued being annoyingly snowflaky and threatened me with infractions, I'd probably kickban them. Probably call em something mean too, prior to the kicking, like 'poopyhead' or 'dumbfuck'. Is that all right?
I don't like this idea/solution of private transitory servers only being private and transitory if they're password protected. If there's a password on the server, people aren't able to join it as freely as they would without it, even if I announce the pass in the roomname or description. So that's why I wanna know the constraints on exactly how I'm allowed to act in my own private server (with no password) without breaching the 'integrity' of staff's friendly environment.
Context is taken, it’s looked at with almost every decision. There’s real offense to be had with that word. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. But yes, please stop and don’t use the word. You can also put a password, put maxclients matching you and your friend count, then VIP anyone else you would like to enter. Then, there’s no way for others to intrude on your fun, Sounds like a private room to me, where others can’t get offended because they can not physically join. And if it does still get reported, well one of your friends is a narc and it might be time to get better friends.
You can kick people from your room, “your room” meaning your PUBLIC room as it doesn’t have the right commands to make it private yet and random people can just join. You can also ban people, you wouldn’t get in trouble for that. Don’t use the slur. The other half, about lecturing and kicking, fine, even with the ‘dumbfuck’.
Originally Posted by skizz
you don’t even have to slur to get banned
ANY form of harassment. saying someone’s trash can be taken out of context by someone else.
this also means im reporting any one of you fuckers that start to say sum stupid shit in any private server because the term private has no meaning anymore
Calling someone trash at the game is fine.
Report what you think is reportable, it doesn’t mean everything that gets reported has actions to be taken.
Originally Posted by okpl
so we can no longer speak our minds ?
You can speak your mind.
I think everyone is looking a bit too much into this. You can call someone trash at the game, “You fucking suck”, “Holy shit, you’re bad” Don’t call someone a faggot, don’t call someone a nigger, don’t call someone slur #3. There are levels to this however, which should be pretty common sense. If you’re following someone from server to server, hours on end, spamming you’re bad. ACTUALLY ruining their experience… you see the context?
بسم الله الرحمان الرحيم
You're missing the point.
We're not saying the brainiacs that decided this was a good idea will abuse the new rules, we're saying someone will. I mean that point is entirely being ignored. A group of staff have purposely added vague rules that can be abused and exploited without addressing it as an issue or adding any sort of means to prevent abuse whatsoever. Furthermore, when these rules get abused they effect the community (the one thing that has kept the game alive). Surely this should be an important aspect to evaluate? Saying 'fuck it' without analyzing the decision as far as that would seem like a disservice to the community.
'trust us bro' isn't working for me.
Why not just remove the chat feature all together - I mean, if nobody can talk then there will be no bigots or racism right? #superiorlogic
We're not saying the brainiacs that decided this was a good idea will abuse the new rules, we're saying someone will. I mean that point is entirely being ignored. A group of staff have purposely added vague rules that can be abused and exploited without addressing it as an issue or adding any sort of means to prevent abuse whatsoever. Furthermore, when these rules get abused they effect the community (the one thing that has kept the game alive). Surely this should be an important aspect to evaluate? Saying 'fuck it' without analyzing the decision as far as that would seem like a disservice to the community.
'trust us bro' isn't working for me.
Why not just remove the chat feature all together - I mean, if nobody can talk then there will be no bigots or racism right? #superiorlogic
▂▃▄▅▆▇█▓▒░ eVo ░▒▓█▇▆▅▄▃▂
Originally Posted by Maya
I'd just like to note real quick that the new rules include the use of "his or her," referring to the staff members. I'd also like to note that you have at least one staff member who goes by they/them pronouns.
If you're talking about the bit in the spoiler, those were in the old rules and phased out entirely
EDIT: Moved that spoiler inside the Old Rules quote for clarity
Last edited by ed; Jan 21, 2020 at 08:37 AM.
بسم الله الرحمان الرحيم
Originally Posted by CoKe
You're missing the point.
We're not saying the brainiacs that decided this was a good idea will abuse the new rules, we're saying someone will. I mean that point is entirely being ignored. A group of staff have purposely added vague rules that can be abused and exploited without addressing it as an issue or adding any sort of means to prevent abuse whatsoever. Furthermore, when these rules get abused they effect the community (the one thing that has kept the game alive). Surely this should be an important aspect to evaluate? Saying 'fuck it' without analyzing the decision as far as that would seem like a disservice to the community.
'trust us bro' isn't working for me.
Why not just remove the chat feature all together - I mean, if nobody can talk then there will be no bigots or racism right? #superiorlogic
I honestly don't even see how this will be abused by anyone, harassment and slurring will be looked at on a case by case basis and people will use common sense to look at the case. One of the advantages of how small our community is that it allows most if not all cases to be analyzed by a human (or multiple in difficult situations.) If you think someone's going to get banned because they said fucking hell at the end of a duel because they lost then you're being delusional. This rule is solely here to punish people who consistently slur or go after someone in an unwanted manner. And as said, if you want to slur with your buds you still can you just need to turn on maxclients and set a password.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Super Moderator, Event Squad, Market Squad. If you have any questions shoot me a PM!
Super Moderator, Event Squad, Market Squad. If you have any questions shoot me a PM!
