That's one opinion. But I played defense when others all were playing offensive and it made a decent impact on how most play wushu. But again, I don't want to make this about me, I'm not mad. You're totally entitled to think I don't deserve a skill distinction between you and I, thats your opinion.

If you're going to make the distinction by hall of fame, maybe make a little cross thingy that sits next to our name in the tier list. Assuming that you in fact did agree we have that distinction and I deserve to be there




At any rate, doesn't matter. The take away is I think it's a good idea to re-do the hall of fame, and make your HoF status available in the tier list in some cool nifty way.

Yeah, we need to rethink how we want to look at HoF and tiers; it's crucial since we all seem to have a bit different ideas.
@rcarey: verax? very solid player, totally top10 during his years here (2008, 2009, early 2010), his duels (they used to play tons of them) with kaminko in both wushu and lenshu were the greatest, most intensive matches I've ever seen. He might be known more for being in PT, TA, GK videos and running tutorials than for in-game skills but that doesn't take those skills away.

Side note: I've been here for a quite long time, I've seen history of the wushu in the making, yet you're not one of those who I'd include into top 'makers', hax. Teaching? So did I. 6-8 months? or maybe a year? of being a unibash wushu teacher (polish section, + several private lessons once we closed it) it's something, yet I don't see myself as a changemaker of any kind, despite showing few guys how not to be utter shit.
'But my def style' - we all had styles and preferences even early on, just not so visible. I can't say that change from rush openers/hold'n'see what happens to smart, defensive play was your doing - if anything, you were a small tribe in a big, wushu machinery.

okay, i will try to explain it in very simple terms:

the whole idea behind tiers is to make it as transparent as it could be and as much specific as possible based of "improv and comebacks" approach, so any freshblood who decided to be a part of team wushu knew what exacly expected from him. or person who want to evaluate how good he really is can check out just by reading requirements.

and based on tiers requirement he would know what he need to work on to become one of the best members of wushu cult.

it's not about who is better or worse, surprisingly, it's about promoting sportsmanship (comeback all the time, improv)

removing specific requirements or making it vague can turn it all into popularity contest

"i wus bettur, i made mor for shushu then you etc" that kind of shit.

i'm all for updating tiers, as long as it will be objective, clear and not dependant on subjective factors as people's opinions and current state of wushu.

if you are best among current wushu players but objectively you are very weak t3, then you should be t3. it will just mean that everyone else is not even on t3.

we all want to feel like we are awesome, that we are legends, that we contributed alot, but it's ignorant. if i suck today, i should stay in tier i fit in, no matter what i did in past and no matter how good (not) i was.

objective requirements that don't depend on people's opinions is what should be worked on. as much specific as it possible.

offtop: if we are really talking about people who changed wushu, it was clan [impro] and it's members. no contest here. just a fact.

Yeah but wushu has already elvoved since we did the actual tiers. I think comebacks and improvisation are obvious for everyone now. A standard wushu match is 750 frames, someone who can't cb or impro won't be able to fight more than 200~250 frames.

It sure needs to be clear from the start for new players/wushuers , but once it's clear it's obvious they'll get better at it with time. The whole "set up somehow", "set up better", "can comeback etc..." is useless imo, it doesnt give any useful informations plus I feel it limits what people see from the mod, because they watch after better players to see how to improve, not tiers description. And somehow "good in attacks" only comes up in t2, without any information about what good in attack is, same thing for "wushu forethought" who doesn't make sense to me, pre-thinking your moves is obvious when you know what you're doing. So I thought, better make the tiers descriptions more vague to let more place for "personnal style & progression", because there's more to wushu than comebacks and improv ;p
Comebacks is just moving through space & improv is just playing. I'm not really improvising anymore, I have stances that allow me to defend/attack/dodge/etc... depending on what the opponent is doing, I don't click joints randomly for the sake of it (well I still do for fun and finding more stances sometimes).

I agree tiers must be about how to improv one's wushu and making wushu better in general, that's why I proposed to base it more on what we can see from actual wushu. T1 players are players we could pretty much recognize from their style, that's what wushu is when you're getting good : everyone has his own perception of wushu and plays depending on it, which defines his style at the end.

That's what tiers must indicate : a graduated progression from "learning how to move" to "being totally independant from any form of schooling".

So yeah my idea is (names are for the lulz, what's important is between brackets) :

t1: ubber stronk - [defined play style, efficient & constant] but still improving, it never stops ;p
t2: very stronk - [specializing / refining own techniques, efficient]
t3: stronk - [solid "scholar" wushu, efficient] scholar = tuto's cb & "simple" but efficient attacks
t4: pretty gud - [wushu, sometimes efficient]
t5: doing okay - [moving, generally lacks precision] < we can start witnessing clear attack / defense
t6: getting it - [moving painfuly, poor attack] < punchingball with limbs
t7: nub - [improv, learning how to move, nub attack] < punchingball

RAFS, CAQS etc is for style

forethought is complicated concept, to explain it in simple its the was samopal or norf move around.

+ you are a bit wrong. naabs use to mushu. do i need to tell you what kind of skill (if any) you can expect from them?

Yep, that's why i said DEFINED play-style and explained it, people above t1~t2 might have their RAQS etc, their play-style is still pretty generic. CAQS not necessarily play exactly the same than another CAQS etc... I think you don't get what I mean because you play like a tutorial book.


Well, if we follow the book, not only norf & samopal, but begotten, bRuCiA , Logic, Mytori, Snudge, Xhiba & Hxcbbqimo (and why samopal ain't t1 if he haz "forethought").

"Forethought" is an obvious thing from T3, it's not a complicated concept, some people are just better at it, but everyone think about what they'll do in the next few turns.


I precised names are for giggles.

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Plus you're pretty much inactive in-game / in wushu lately, you're talking about Norf that we haven't seen wushuing in a long while. If we want to change tiers it's to make wushu a living mod, so people know who to observe instead of watching dead names in a list.