Ranking
Original Post
"Indian" Headdress name change (quick suggestion)
The term "Indian" being used to refer to aboriginals has been considered offensive by many aboriginal peoples for a long time. The name should be changed to "Aboriginal Headdress" or at least "Native-American Headdress" to avoid causing any problems. I am not Aboriginal myself, but I do live in Canada and have known many Aboriginal peoples that would consider the current name offensive. I believe this should be a very quick and simple change that will help expand the community.
Seems a touch overzealous as it's a virtual item placed on a doll representative of nothing in particular. Could stand to change the name though, "War Bonnet" would work I think.
<BISH> kick chan my modes are moving on their own~
<Shook> FLAGGOTS
Hi, we've renamed the item to "War Bonnet" with the description of "feathered headwear".
Item icon indeed hasn't been updated yet - we'll do that later this week. I've updated the description as well now - yesterday's change was a quick edit to get rid of the initial issue with inappropriate item name:
Originally Posted by New description
For the great warriors who have earned a place of great respect in their Tori-tribe.

For people who don't agree with Maya's posts: stay civil. If you don't agree with points being made it doesn't mean you get a free pass for getting toxic.
To me, this argument is just here to make a scene. While I understand Maya's concerns, this to me is against making everyone feel equal. Why can't all items feel homogeneous? We have many cultural references, ranging from cultural (on a mainstream basis, to ethnic). If we walk around the topic, and make each item feel bland, lacking the characteristics, the game will lose it's appeal. I know for a fact, that there are certain members of this community who like "roleplaying" with their toris, and 3d items allow that, beyond textures and names.

One of my favourite examples is a member I came across lately, named Cowboy. He had all items referencing the western, and even said "howdy partner" to me (which was really cute btw). If we start taking these things away from our community, I feel the customisation of toris will diminish, and lesser its freedom.

If we all try hard enough, every item can be offensive to somebody, and I simply disagree with deleting items simply because of the fact, that somebody may get offended.
It's funny to me how selective Maya is with this item, because I can find A FEW items that are way more culturally offensive, but somehow haven't reached their awareness.
Originally Posted by Maya View Post
"For the great warriors who have earned a place of great respect in their Tori-tribe."

This is even more extreme cultural appropriation!!
We don't have tribes. The vast majority of us aren't indigeonous. You can't buy a symbol that has to be earned. I ran this whole thing by indigenous friends of mine tonight and they couldn't believe it was even debatable. Give me a reason this item needs to be in the game. Give me a solid argument against it being cultural appropriation.

"I have no ties to the item's background so I cant use this item I brought" Maya's Logic sure is sweet.


If we're gonna go by your logic, most of the 3d items in the shops will be restricted based on the persons identity, which will suck ass. There are almost 100 3d items on the store as of this time. A good proportion of them are have cultural backgrounds (sombrero originates from Mexico, Katana originates from Japan, Viking shield originates from Norway, the list goes on and on). So me, a Cameroonian man, cant use any of the items I have no ties to because I'm not indigenous? Sounds like discrimination to me.


I'll wear what I please and I wont give 2 shits about your SJW crap. Someone who's so desperate to fight discrimination and racism is the SAME PERSON to tell who can adopt this culture and who can't based off their identity. Instead of telling people what cultures they can't adopt, how about you focus your twisted views onto yourself and let everyone else do what they wish to do.
Last edited by Vertex; Nov 25, 2020 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Sir said no
[insert generic quotes from certain players]
I admit, my examples weren't good. They aren't of the same background as the item the thread was originally about. With that in mind, I actually apologize, because I misunderstood the reasoning for which the discussion was caused, in the first place. Thank you for the response, it explained in better detail, what initially caused my disregard.

I'd also like to say that "to me this is just to cause a scene" was inappropriate, and in hindsight the "scene" was right to happen.
Me calling Maya selective was taken in the wrong sense, I meant them being selective about the item, as there are others that could be taken with similar notice (above I explain that I didn't see the full picture in that situation).

With that in mind, I fully support the item being renamed, to not have any unnecessary correlations, but I don't see any sense in deleting the item, simply because it already got its "rework".
Originally Posted by Maya View Post
A few points here -
  • The more internationally recognized name is "indigenous." "Aboriginal" is still used by some in North America, but isn't as well known of a term throughout the rest of the world. "Indigenous" would be the preferred alternative here.
  • The headdress depicted by that item is a war bonnet. Using it as a fashion accessory or for fun is cultural appropriation. Within the culture of the indigenous peoples of the interior plains of North America, war bonnets are sacred pieces and have to be earned. Wearing something like this without earning it is highly disrespectful and shows a lack of understanding of the associated culture (which makes it a pretty clear case of cultural appropriation).
  • Any way you want to spin this, "Indian" is obviously the wrong term here and is considered pretty offensive by many.
In my opinion, the item should be completely removed from the game and those who own it should be refunded. My only fear would be that someone who owns it has legitimately earned it through inspiring and selfless actions within their tribe or rez, but that is pretty unlikely and I'd say that if that is the case with any particular player, that player can message staff about it and get the item back.

While that is so, there are a lot of cultural things that are used all the time. While I do see your point I dont think it is that serious. For example a wizard hat should only be granted to a wizard. The wood sandal shoe things could be said only japanese people can wear it but like it doesnt matter the culture its a game. Maybe a name change like just call it a headdress would be a better fit but completely removing it because it doesnt follow a culture just does not make sense. I am sorry if my argument makes you angered or if you disagree with it but I feel this is a happyish medium just a namechange of the item.
Last edited by catana; Nov 26, 2020 at 03:05 AM. Reason: not specific enough
Originally Posted by Maya View Post
Like I said... it's not only that it isn't a culture that we belong to, but that the referenced culture is one still being stomped out by colonialism as we speak and that the item has a lot of weight within that culture. It's not just a fun fashion accessory to them.

Breaking news : colonialism hasn't been a thing since the 60's. And how was that even a thing. What about the Mongolian empire which dominated half of Europe which resulted in the destruction of their culture and other unfortunate events. Why isn't anyone speaking about that? But nobody cares because the victims were white. Its only bad when they do it according to you.

Originally Posted by Maya View Post
Again, that wasn't my point at all. You can adorn fashion from other cultures, but it has to be in good taste.

Either you have a good taste or not, that doesn't concern you in the slightest.

Originally Posted by Maya View Post
Sombreros were made to keep farmers safe from the sun and are even sold to tourists in much of Mexico.
Katanas are simply weapons and though they played a good sized role in feudal Japan, they are still used in modern martial arts and are far from sacred.
The Viking shield's situation is almost identical to the katana's.

My point stands no matter how you try to twist it. Absolutely nobody complained about this being an issue until you made it an issue.

Originally Posted by Maya View Post
You can adorn items which originate in other cultures. You misunderstand why the war bonnet is an issue.

Your entire point was that it had to be earnt, not brought. Which is entirely stupid by itself.

Originally Posted by Maya View Post
Everyone doing whatever they wish is how cultures get stomped out, commodified, white washed. I just won't let that happen in the communities I'm a part of. You had no need for all this toxicity in your post. You completely misunderstood me and attacked me for it. Not cool.

So enjoying a culture you like : white washed. Yeah ok. I'm white washing (bear in mind I'm not even white, its just an example to show how busted her logic is) Japanese culture because I'm wearing a samurai outfit, definitely makes sense. How about the black washing of British culture nobody is talking about? Or about how European culture and history is being rewritten with non whites taking important figure roles?

I'm talking about this shit:

Gary Linker and his virtue signalling attempt to brainwash the public failed. He lives in one of the whitest areas in Britain and hasn't taken a single refugee home with him https://youtu.be/tXoBY9TpZuY

The BBC with their anti white agenda rewriting British history with lies and deception https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_mu...ature=youtu.be


The BBC yet again with their agenda https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN_x9o8MV1o

Take a note that this is only a fraction of this bs. Why are you allowing this to happen?


And to add on, stop being obnoxious, then people wont be "toxic" to you anymore
Last edited by Vertex; Nov 28, 2020 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Staff are bad
[insert generic quotes from certain players]