All I'm saying is if all this goes through it's sort of making Tier 1 to wide open, and it means we need to open Tier 0

Even if they do go through, i don't really see why that's necessary. If were going to make alterations to the tier system they'll rather be radical than throwing another meaningless title.

Massive edit, because I don't want to sound like I'm upset when I'm not.

The tier system really should be vastly changed. The highest tier possible should be to players who have played wushu for a long damn time and have consistently been awesome. They've inspired others to be better players, they rose the bar of wushu, and they consistently prove to be a challenge for anyone who plays them in wushu.

The tier below that should be excellent players who look to one day lead the frontier of wushu playing.

Tier below that should be great players who just need to dedicate a bit more time or find that little special something to make them excellent.

Tier below that is competent, can comeback every game

Tier below that is almost competent, not coming back every game

Tier below that is you're not coming back every game, but you want to learn wushu.


That way we have guys like Begotten and Snudge in Tier 1 EXCELLENT
Guys like RCarey and Deuteria in Tier 2 GREAT
Guy like Vodka and Editz in Tier 3 Good
Guys like Violentz in Tier 4 Competent
Guys like kt700 in Tier 5 Almost Competent
And whoever cant play at that level in Tier 6. Not there yet


That's what makes the most sense to me.

The problem I have with our current system is that guys who are not active or in shape are up there in tier 1. If xhiba, brucia, etc. are up there, guys like me and deut should have a shot, which is a flaw that needs to be fixed. If tier 1 is going to be as 1337 as that, to only take the greatest wushuers ever, who have years of experience, they need to be tested monthly or w.e. to ensure the integrity of the tier. Also, if our applications bring about change to the tiers that's actually kinda cool.

Tier lists, at least the way they are used in most fighting games, are used to depict potential of players. That is to say the highest potential characters with best consistency are S tier, because SOMEBODY at SOMEPOINT can play them best.

I don't think the current Tier 2 players at their best are on the same level as Tier 1 players at their best. But most Tier 1 players defined wushu for what it is within the community when they played their absolute best and made their statement, and I think a few people playing really well at this very moment, maybe even potentially better than T1 players right at this second, doesn't make them Tier 1. And such little time has really past. The metagame hasn't changed in ages in terms of brushu and I think it's going to take a Tier 2 player who is good enough to force a change in the metagame to prove their the new MyTori or the new Logic.

And how good were you after playing 16 months? Saying it's a measure of potential is a bit presumptuous. I get what you're saying, but changing the world of wushu simply can't be a requirement. What have you done to change wushu hax? Sure you were around during the forming stages of the mod, but as I understand it you weren't good at that time. So what are your metagame-changing contributions, which made you believe you deserved tier 1? Some food for thought. Besides which, honoring those who made wushu what it is today is what the hall of fame is for. I'm not saying I deserve T1, but our method of testing involves deulling the best of tier 1. My getting accepted is dependant on my competence anyway. If me getting in would sit badly with you, then do you believe the system to be flawed?

Hm. I know this topic has come about due to rcarey and I applying for T1, so that's good. I think that, talking about your ideas Hax, it comes down to what we want the margins for each tier to be. So having said that, I think you're right when you compare (when at our best compared to their best) rcarey and or I to the likes of Brucia, Begotten, Logic (etc), with either of use falling short in comparison - speaking of efficiency and continuity of 'elite' actions, based off of forethought. I believe rcarey and I still have an aspect of these proposed things, but they haven't necessarily been refined as much as you, Hax, might like.

Again, it comes down to how we want to group the tiers. Whether we look for excellence and only that, for the highest tier, or if instead see excellence as a child or adolescent, and choose that that is enough for merit in the beginning.

If we are speaking of the current ranking system, based on wushu forethought being the only premise, then I believe that we have some form of forethought. It may not be that what we hold is as precise or structured as the more experienced T1 players, but it is still there.

I had more to say, but I seem to have forgotten.

I think you're taking that tier thingy too seriously ! I copy-paste what I wrote in the council board because you can't go there hax, but mainly I think we should make the definition of tiers more "vague", something along those lines :



We want to make wushu a living mod ! Reserving high tiers and e-peen rewards only for "meta game changing players" ain't the way to go imo : that's what the Hall Of Fame is for (it should include active & inactive players)

I think tiers must be more of an indication about how to improve one's wushu and point beginners toward this or that high tier player for advice, or model etc...
Since a lot of wushuers (and myself included) like showing-off and have massive e-peen, maybe we should add some other titles like "Wushuer of the month" or others rewarding title for motivation and self-pleasuring ;p

Concerning the inactivity of certain t1 players I'd suggest to let them in there, because they're obviously deserving it, but we should color their name in grey to point out they're not presently active.

As for you Hax, do not consider t1 getting larger as an indication that you're less special, it's an indication that the wushu community is growing larger (so tiers grow with it).

Well if we have to bring me into this that's fine Carey.

I've changed wushu because I taught it. I changed wushu because everyone was playing this offensive metagame where meaningless swinging your body was typical for mid level play, and I decided to start clapping like Odlov did back in the day to bring back the defensive meta into a viable option. It made all of you far less liberal with where you put your body, and whether your realize it or not, me slamming yours and others heads for 40,000 points 3 turns in after a simple noob clap made you and lots of people better players. I'm not a GOD of wushu, I don't think I'm Logic either.

That being said, I don't want this to be personal, because it's not, so I want to move my ideas towards something really intelligent that Deprav mentioned: the hall of fame.

Active players should be nominated to the Hall of Fame as well as the ones that don't play anymore. If someone like Mytori, Begotten, and or Myself since I was mentioned were also moved there, then maybe we wouldn't feel so bad about people trying to join the ranks when they haven't done as much to change wushu as the current people in this list.


OOOOOR (and this is just total stream of concious writing, brain storming)

What if the old players were the ones in the hall of fame and those who are still looking to take themselves to the next level and the next level are the ones tiered? And we clean up the less important Hall of famers like Verax.

That way you have hall of fame members like:

The Members of Alpha (i was going to use names but it just makes this faster)
Begotten
Brucia
MyTori
Norf
Sahee
SlipAnc
AMB

etc as untouched old icons of wushu, who shouldn't ever feel "threatened" by being compared to anyone

And then you have the tiers of people like

Tier 1: Rcarey, deuteria, deprav, killer3366
Tier2: Imapirate, vodka
Tier 3: Snake, Editz, Kayla
Tier 4: Violentz


etc etc?

That way tiers can be what you want them to be, a competetive everchanging level that you can go up and down from that shows the active guys going at it to be the best right now, and the hall of fame can be the archive of players who established themselves and just play the game for fun now

I like this idea of adding active players to HOF as a way of giving the ultimate recognition. I didn't make the original HOF but seeing as I never heard of verax, I don't think he should be on there. As for then taking them off the tier lists (those nominated to HOF), I don't think it's such a bad thing to leave them there. I see what you are saying about not wanting to be compared, but taking people off the tier makes it seem like they're inactive, which isn't true necessarily. Shouldn't being in the HOF be enough distinction/epeen stroking, to survive being compared to people like deut and I, or deppy? What if we came up with a little icon designating the hall of fame members from the rest of the tier?

Also I expected more rage from you hax, well done keeping your cool when I brought you into it. I don't, however, see your teaching of wushu as a game-changer. If it wasn't you banging on my noggin, it would have been someone else.

Also as this thread is for ranking up apps, I'm moving this discussion into a new thread.