ToriAgent Recruitment
Original Post
"Indian" Headdress name change (quick suggestion)
The term "Indian" being used to refer to aboriginals has been considered offensive by many aboriginal peoples for a long time. The name should be changed to "Aboriginal Headdress" or at least "Native-American Headdress" to avoid causing any problems. I am not Aboriginal myself, but I do live in Canada and have known many Aboriginal peoples that would consider the current name offensive. I believe this should be a very quick and simple change that will help expand the community.
A few points here -
  • The more internationally recognized name is "indigenous." "Aboriginal" is still used by some in North America, but isn't as well known of a term throughout the rest of the world. "Indigenous" would be the preferred alternative here.
  • The headdress depicted by that item is a war bonnet. Using it as a fashion accessory or for fun is cultural appropriation. Within the culture of the indigenous peoples of the interior plains of North America, war bonnets are sacred pieces and have to be earned. Wearing something like this without earning it is highly disrespectful and shows a lack of understanding of the associated culture (which makes it a pretty clear case of cultural appropriation).
  • Any way you want to spin this, "Indian" is obviously the wrong term here and is considered pretty offensive by many.

In my opinion, the item should be completely removed from the game and those who own it should be refunded. My only fear would be that someone who owns it has legitimately earned it through inspiring and selfless actions within their tribe or rez, but that is pretty unlikely and I'd say that if that is the case with any particular player, that player can message staff about it and get the item back.
<Hush> the beat feature sounds like the main event at a circle jerk festival
Seems a touch overzealous as it's a virtual item placed on a doll representative of nothing in particular. Could stand to change the name though, "War Bonnet" would work I think.
<BISH> kick chan my modes are moving on their own~
<Shook> FLAGGOTS
Originally Posted by ManlyPotato View Post
Seems a touch overzealous as it's a virtual item placed on a doll representative of nothing in particular. Could stand to change the name though, "War Bonnet" would work I think.

Which is part of point... we're kinda flippantly using it here as a fun little fashion accessory when it holds a hell of a lot more meaning than that.
Similarly, I'd feel really uncomfortable with a 3D item made to look like a purple heart medal or something along those lines.
Originally Posted by Goat View Post
Hi, we've renamed the item to "War Bonnet" with the description of "feathered headwear".

The icon associated still has the text "Indian Headdress," but I really think the item should be done away with... playing dress-up with sacred cultural symbols is really shitty.
<Hush> the beat feature sounds like the main event at a circle jerk festival
Item icon indeed hasn't been updated yet - we'll do that later this week. I've updated the description as well now - yesterday's change was a quick edit to get rid of the initial issue with inappropriate item name:
Originally Posted by New description
For the great warriors who have earned a place of great respect in their Tori-tribe.

For people who don't agree with Maya's posts: stay civil. If you don't agree with points being made it doesn't mean you get a free pass for getting toxic.
"For the great warriors who have earned a place of great respect in their Tori-tribe."

This is even more extreme cultural appropriation!!
We don't have tribes. The vast majority of us aren't indigeonous. You can't buy a symbol that has to be earned. I ran this whole thing by indigenous friends of mine tonight and they couldn't believe it was even debatable. Give me a reason this item needs to be in the game. Give me a solid argument against it being cultural appropriation.
<Hush> the beat feature sounds like the main event at a circle jerk festival
To me, this argument is just here to make a scene. While I understand Maya's concerns, this to me is against making everyone feel equal. Why can't all items feel homogeneous? We have many cultural references, ranging from cultural (on a mainstream basis, to ethnic). If we walk around the topic, and make each item feel bland, lacking the characteristics, the game will lose it's appeal. I know for a fact, that there are certain members of this community who like "roleplaying" with their toris, and 3d items allow that, beyond textures and names.

One of my favourite examples is a member I came across lately, named Cowboy. He had all items referencing the western, and even said "howdy partner" to me (which was really cute btw). If we start taking these things away from our community, I feel the customisation of toris will diminish, and lesser its freedom.

If we all try hard enough, every item can be offensive to somebody, and I simply disagree with deleting items simply because of the fact, that somebody may get offended.
It's funny to me how selective Maya is with this item, because I can find A FEW items that are way more culturally offensive, but somehow haven't reached their awareness.
Originally Posted by Maya View Post
"For the great warriors who have earned a place of great respect in their Tori-tribe."

This is even more extreme cultural appropriation!!
We don't have tribes. The vast majority of us aren't indigeonous. You can't buy a symbol that has to be earned. I ran this whole thing by indigenous friends of mine tonight and they couldn't believe it was even debatable. Give me a reason this item needs to be in the game. Give me a solid argument against it being cultural appropriation.

"I have no ties to the item's background so I cant use this item I brought" Maya's Logic sure is sweet.


If we're gonna go by your logic, most of the 3d items in the shops will be restricted based on the persons identity, which will suck ass. There are almost 100 3d items on the store as of this time. A good proportion of them are have cultural backgrounds (sombrero originates from Mexico, Katana originates from Japan, Viking shield originates from Norway, the list goes on and on). So me, a Cameroonian man, cant use any of the items I have no ties to because I'm not indigenous? Sounds like discrimination to me.


I'll wear what I please and I wont give 2 shits about your SJW crap. Someone who's so desperate to fight discrimination and racism is the SAME PERSON to tell who can adopt this culture and who can't based off their identity. Instead of telling people what cultures they can't adopt, how about you focus your twisted views onto yourself and let everyone else do what they wish to do.
Last edited by Vertex; Nov 25, 2020 at 01:37 PM. Reason: Sir said no
[insert generic quotes from certain players]
Originally Posted by melrose View Post
To me, this argument is just here to make a scene.

This just isn't true and is really inappropriate for a staff member to be saying.
Originally Posted by melrose View Post
One of my favourite examples is a member I came across lately, named Cowboy. He had all items referencing the western, and even said "howdy partner" to me (which was really cute btw). If we start taking these things away from our community, I feel the customisation of toris will diminish, and lesser its freedom.

Cowboys aren't minorities being stripped of their culture, having their culture commodified, etc. They were (and sort of still are?) a part of a period in US history. Their culture isn't in danger and they haven't faced oppression or prejudice for their culture.
Originally Posted by melrose View Post
If we all try hard enough, every item can be offensive to somebody, and I simply disagree with deleting items simply because of the fact, that somebody may get offended.

That's absolutely not true. There are plenty of items that don't have the kind of cultural significance that a war bonnet does. A kimono would be better since it doesn't hold the kind of weight that a war bonnet does. It's not all about it belonging to a culture. It's how we're disregarding how sacred it is to that culture.
Originally Posted by melrose View Post
It's funny to me how selective Maya is with this item, because I can find A FEW items that are way more culturally offensive, but somehow haven't reached their awareness.

Selective? I just saw this post. I haven't been browsing the store. Speak up if you see something! Dm me about them too if you'd like.
I really don't expect staff members to jump on the maya hate train. Thank you for that.
Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
"I have no ties to the item's background so I cant use this item I brought" Maya's Logic sure is sweet.

Like I said... it's not only that it isn't a culture that we belong to, but that the referenced culture is one still being stomped out by colonialism as we speak and that the item has a lot of weight within that culture. It's not just a fun fashion accessory to them.
Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
If we're gonna go by your logic, most of the 3d items in the shops will be restricted based on the persons identity, which will suck ass.

Again, that wasn't my point at all. You can adorn fashion from other cultures, but it has to be in good taste.
Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
(sombrero originates from Mexico, Katana originates from Japan, Viking shield originates from Norway, the list goes on and on)

Sombreros were made to keep farmers safe from the sun and are even sold to tourists in much of Mexico.
Katanas are simply weapons and though they played a good sized role in feudal Japan, they are still used in modern martial arts and are far from sacred.
The viking shield's situation is almost identical to the katana's.
Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
So me, a Cameroonian man, cant use any of the items I have no ties to because I'm not indigenous? Sounds like discrimination to me.

You can adorn items which originate in other cultures. You misunderstand why the war bonnet is an issue.
Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
I'll wear what I please and I wont give 2 shits about your SJW crap. Someone who's so desperate to fight discrimination and racism is the SAME PERSON to tell who can adopt this culture and who can't based off their identity. Instead of telling people what cultures they can't adopt, how about you focus your twisted views onto yourself and let everyone else do what they wish to do.

Everyone doing whatever they wish is how cultures get stomped out, commodified, white washed. I just won't let that happen in the communities I'm a part of. You had no need for all this toxicity in your post. You completely misunderstood me and attacked me for it. Not cool.
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I just google searched the issue for 2 minutes and found out that war bonnets are actually banned at most music festivals internationally and across a great number of other events in the UK as well. Please read up on this stuff before presenting your opinion on it.

Here are a quick 3 links for ya.
One
Two
Three

The second was written by an indigenous person and the others contain quotes and written statements by other indigenous people.
Last edited by Maya; Nov 25, 2020 at 08:05 PM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
<Hush> the beat feature sounds like the main event at a circle jerk festival