Toribash
Original Post
Remember Ninjutsu?
Hey guys.
2handcIap here and as some of you know, I've been away for Toribash for a year and a half. When I left, it was just after my peak and i was thrilled to kill at mods like Akidobigdojo, Judo, and, of course, Ninjutsu. And I loved Ninjutsu! I was constantly found in the Tourney with iemagazine, rapmaster (AdelphiaF), and many other awesome dudes who I really enjoyed playing with. But on the other side of a peak there is only downfall, and mine was full of rage. My grades in school were awful and I knew Toribash was my negative side so I quit.
But I'm back... And I couldn't be more upset with the look of the tourneys, specifically because there's no Ninjutsu anymore. "Why", I ask? And they answer that it favors defensive styles. iemagazine says "and Rk-mma doesn't?" He's right, but that's up to the players to have respect for the game and develop morals. When one shovels it's legal. When one lifts it's. When one runs its legal. When one kicks a wrist and leads by 200 points it's legal and it's also legal when that person stays away from his or her opponent, hits c and spaces out for 300 frames. But those who do this often do it because they aren't good enough to do otherwise and give themselves out of their own personal handicap. Everyone else doesn't do it because we have morals. So the moral of this story (no pun intended) is that respect for Toribash is what makes Ninjutsu, or Rk-mma for that matter, a great mod.
And my idea/request: simply bring back the Ninjutsu Tourney. Many people love it and many others will be enticed by its lovely sound and its 500/750 tc after which they will find the love for it others have found in the past. So you won't have a lack of participants.
I also wish there was an Akidobigdojo tourney while the topic is on the table.
Peace out
FBI gon' whoop yo ASS
This has gone from discussion to something silly. Use good arguments or I'll close this.

How about stabjutsu? Why can't you just play stabjutsu?
Brendan (he who passeth judgement on the frequent changing of signatures): I don't do hentai anymore
Originally Posted by 2handcIap View Post
But that's the thing: if you like the mod and care less about winning and more about having fun then you play it right.

Unfortunately not many share those thoughts, especially when it comes down to winning TC. Besides, tournaments are to be won. I don't see any other way to get fun out of tournaments other than the thrill of competing with skilled players and triumphing in the end, and Ninjutsu doesn't allow that with the turtle move. Other than that and you don't need a tournament, and in that case you're simply better off with making a private server.

Originally Posted by 2handcIap View Post
Sure others can play the way they want but there are ways to beat them. The proof is in the 5 losses.

Sure, even the moves that are guaranteed to give almost certain victory fail sometimes, but that doesn't change the fact that people win a lot more when they use it. The proof is the 80 wins.
In Wushu, you still have to touch the opponent to be able to run away. One can prevent the running by getting more points.
In Aikido, you are still most likely in contact with one who tents to get a point win. What stops you from getting a point win? Or maybe you've just failed with disqualifying your opponent earlier on while your opponent managed to get points off you? It's not "how to win in that moment," it's "how to win the match."

Originally Posted by 2handcIap View Post
Now the question is if luck overrides skill which 9 times out of ten it does. So replace the judo tourney with ninjutsu!

You guys are talking about judo.tbm. The mod in one of the auto-tournament servers is judofrac.tbm. In normal Judo, the luck factor comes from the combination of high turnframes, the limpness that comes after getting dismembered and the DQing bodyparts. However, in Judofrac it's different, since fractured limbs don't make Tori go limp and they don't fly off on their own. In short, Judo is luck, Judofrac is not.

Regarding rk-mma: It's been a while since I last played Ninjutsu, but I'm fairly sure there was more distance between the players, plus it took enough time to fall down and do a rush move for the defensive player to set himself up. rk-mma has lower distance and you can already reach your opponent in the first turn, so the defensive player doesn't have time to set up properly. Plus there's dqtimeout which prevents one to fall on one's back.
However, since I'm not absolutely sure if this is the case, we can test it out. Just query me in IRC to see if I'm there and we can think about it.

Look, even I like Ninjutsu a lot. I like how instead of starting from the ground like usual the players start from the air, and how it had no grab... I'm a fan of no grab mods.
But unfortunately the fact is that there is a way to win almost certainly, and it ruins all the competitive aspects of the game. This is already a good reason to not have it in Public servers, automatic tournaments or GM tournaments. Sorry about this, but Ninjutsu won't show up in those servers again. If you want to play it, do it in a private server.

...though maybe I should check out stabjutsu.
...though maybe I should check out stabjutsu.

You should ;0
Starts a bit above the ground, but doesn't have the same force ninjutsu has (which allows for improv, where nj depends on the opener). Wonderful grav too.
Just remember to use stabjutsu_original.tbm
Brendan (he who passeth judgement on the frequent changing of signatures): I don't do hentai anymore
Reminder that a 100% guaranteed win turtle-opener was discovered rendering the mod "broken" & not suitable for official servers.

Make user rooms if you want it.

SkulFuk Moderated Message:
Deleting staff posts isn't clever, especially when they're contributing to the thread with facts + was one of the people who got the mod removed from official rooms
Last edited by SkulFuk; Dec 21, 2013 at 12:32 PM.

<Erf> SkulFuk: gf just made a toilet sniffing joke at me
<Erf> i think
<Erf> i think i hate you
Originally Posted by Tonakai View Post
Unfortunately not many share those thoughts, especially when it comes down to winning TC. Besides, tournaments are to be won. I don't see any other way to get fun out of tournaments other than the thrill of competing with skilled players and triumphing in the end, and Ninjutsu doesn't allow that with the turtle move. Other than that and you don't need a tournament, and in that case you're simply better off with making a private server.

Sure, even the moves that are guaranteed to give almost certain victory fail sometimes, but that doesn't change the fact that people win a lot more when they use it. The proof is the 80 wins.
In Wushu, you still have to touch the opponent to be able to run away. One can prevent the running by getting more points.
In Aikido, you are still most likely in contact with one who tents to get a point win. What stops you from getting a point win? Or maybe you've just failed with disqualifying your opponent earlier on while your opponent managed to get points off you? It's not "how to win in that moment," it's "how to win the match."

You guys are talking about judo.tbm. The mod in one of the auto-tournament servers is judofrac.tbm. In normal Judo, the luck factor comes from the combination of high turnframes, the limpness that comes after getting dismembered and the DQing bodyparts. However, in Judofrac it's different, since fractured limbs don't make Tori go limp and they don't fly off on their own. In short, Judo is luck, Judofrac is not.

Regarding rk-mma: It's been a while since I last played Ninjutsu, but I'm fairly sure there was more distance between the players, plus it took enough time to fall down and do a rush move for the defensive player to set himself up. rk-mma has lower distance and you can already reach your opponent in the first turn, so the defensive player doesn't have time to set up properly. Plus there's dqtimeout which prevents one to fall on one's back.
However, since I'm not absolutely sure if this is the case, we can test it out. Just query me in IRC to see if I'm there and we can think about it.

Look, even I like Ninjutsu a lot. I like how instead of starting from the ground like usual the players start from the air, and how it had no grab... I'm a fan of no grab mods.
But unfortunately the fact is that there is a way to win almost certainly, and it ruins all the competitive aspects of the game. This is already a good reason to not have it in Public servers, automatic tournaments or GM tournaments. Sorry about this, but Ninjutsu won't show up in those servers again. If you want to play it, do it in a private server.

...though maybe I should check out stabjutsu.

Originally Posted by Lazors View Post
You should ;0
Starts a bit above the ground, but doesn't have the same force ninjutsu has (which allows for improv, where nj depends on the opener). Wonderful grav too.
Just remember to use stabjutsu_original.tbm

I'd suggest to rule stabjutsu out too. Because, same as with Ninjutsu, the defensive guy always wins pretty much. See, in stabjutsu, unlike as in other no-grab mods, the distance is bigger so you don't risk losing pts on your opponent's rush opener (which would make you chase). And in this time you can take your perfectly working gay turtle and just get pts from there.
Oh, so it isn't actually a glitch, just a tactic that works for either player?
I thought the player positions changed the gameplay, I read attacker as tori and defender as uke, but the two players actually have the same chance?
Brendan (he who passeth judgement on the frequent changing of signatures): I don't do hentai anymore
Originally Posted by Lazors View Post
Oh, so it isn't actually a glitch, just a tactic that works for either player?
I thought the player positions changed the gameplay, I read attacker as tori and defender as uke, but the two players actually have the same chance?

Both players have the tactic; however, if both players use the tactic the game ends in a draw.

Over, and over, and over again.

Given you'll have the impulse or need not to draw, because simply laying on your back and doing nothing over and over and over again isn't fun AND you're not winning, the impulse will be to close the distance and score points. Whoever decides to close the distance will be the one at a distinct disadvantage.

stabjutsu_original (which has the wrong setttings, it's suppose to have 800 dojo size) remedies PARTS OF but not all of Ninjutsu's problem. The engage distance being higher and the space behind uke and Tori's starting position being larger allows for more maneuverability for a more favorable approach for the aggressor, along with a far less likelihood of losing by removal from the dojo.

Part of the power of the "turtle stance" if were going to call it that is how little space is behind the defender once he gets in it. Nearly any approaches that has even has the aggressor even slightly higher than the turtle can cause a ring out, given there's no grab.
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Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
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