Originally Posted by
Cicada3301
Considering the fact that Diamond took more than 3k$ from shmevin and has never got bankrupt by anyone while he was actively duelling (3+ years), i don't think it's even worth discussing anything
Actually, there's a few things worth discussing.
Let us remind ourselves that dueling in Toribash is
gambling. This means that, in order to be successful at dueling in Toribash, you cannot be simply "good at the game", but you must apply gambling-specific techniques to maximize profit.
For instance, let's take a look at your
bet/duel profit thread. You have a profit of ~37 million TC --- impressive! However, was this 37 million attained from consistently dueling top-level competition? I HIGHLY doubt it was. In fact, I suspect such a profit was accumulated from seeking favorable matchups against weaker yet arrogant players who aren't of any interest to people like Shmevin/iTemp/BOOST/etc. Moreover, whenever I see you play against tougher competition, it's in short bursts. Three matches in duelmode -> spectate.
Now, allow me to distinguish your comrade Kros. He has a profit of ~1.8 million: while you have ~4x as many duelmode games as he has, you also have around ~6 times the return that he has per duel. Is this because you're simply a better player? Maybe. However, I constantly see Kros playing against
tough competition, and he often does so for hours at a time. Winning 1 million against the toughest competition is more impressive than winning 100 million against subpar competition and favorable matchups.
So, with that being said, Diamond won a lot in his time. But that time has passed. People have gotten better while he hasn't played, and when he has played (past his peak in 2016/2017), I haven't seen the most convincing results. For instance, the last documented example that I can find of Diamond playing against high level competition was in 2021's Clan League,
where he went 2-5 against Shmevin in lenshu3ng in Alpha's match against Liquor. In the finals,
he went 3-6. In 2019, when Alpha was knocked out by Obey in the semifinals,
he went 3-4.
Diamond never competed in a WC again after his win in 2018. The one he won in 2019 had the smallest amount of competitors out of all the WCs (29): the one Shmevin won had 3x the amount of competitors in comparison (93). Shmevin has also competed in every WC event.
So, what am I trying to say? There's a difference between
winning and
being the greatest player. There's a difference between
winning competitions and
being the greatest competitor. To give a different example than Shmevin, I'll bring up Molotov5. If Cicada3301 somehow collected Molotov5's hundreds of alts from over the years, and ran it through the duelmode profit script, we might see a number that exceeds Shmevin's negative earnings. And yet, it seems to be commonly understood that Molotov5 is one of the elite duelers. How can this be? The answer is simple: Molotov5 is a gambling addict and only stops at extremities. Either he goes bankrupt after raising the stakes in a degenerate and reckless manner, or he wins SO much to the point where he realizes that he should call it a day (this is a rare occurrence because if you've won a lot, nothing seems like enough.) Molotov5 will duel all day without exaggeration --- until he goes bankrupt at the hands of a high-caliber player like iTemp or Kros --- and it doesn't always go their way.
Contrariwise, if Molotov5 dueled like Cicada3301, where he duels for short periods of time, being super disciplined about his bankroll and leaving after an early profit has been made, we'd be looking at millions upon millions earned in profit. But that doesn't happen, because Cicada3301 and Molotov5 want different things. Diamond and Shmevin want different things. This difference has to be made known in order to make an educated decision on who has the greater "aura".
TL;DR,
1) duel earnings reveal more about a player's actual approach to dueling than how good a player is at the game (Cicada3301 wants to believe duel earnings is the only thing that matters),
2) Shmevin has competed more often and against tougher competition for a longer period of time,
3) Diamond won't exhibit the same success against today's players, Shmevin has and continues to do so.
Last edited by Moonshake; May 14, 2024 at 02:42 PM.
R, 1) duel earnings reveal more about a player's actual approach to dueling than how good a player is at the game (Cicada3301 wants to believe duel earnings is the only thing that matters), 2) Shmevin has competed more often and against tougher competition for a longer period of time, 3) Diamond won't exhibit the same success against today's players, Shmevin has and continues to do so.