My shovel annihilates many Master/Custom belts that I've met. Don't believe it? I played five games against SpaceLlama with the same shovel, and these are all of the replays.

Games won: 4/5.

Heh Find counters for shovel, and we shall develop it...I dont use shovel...but love to do what people hate...

also There is one more counter to shovel, Shovel relies on Power of Gravity while picking other up, so it means the more you are associated to ground the stronger you are

The counter comes outta it is LOw shovel.

The shovel lower then opponent's shovel.

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with shoveling, even if it is easy (and admittedly popular with newbies). Shoveling works. It makes sense. It's like playing pool (billiards, whatever you wish to call it) and attempting trick shots every time. Forget the strategy, forget trying to win: it looks cool. But also stupid. It requires skill to win with a disadvantage, but it requires a fool to give themselves one.

Shovel it if it works for you, use something else if it doesn't. It's that simple.

I appreciate you. We need more members like yourself. Look forward to seeing you advance in the TB community.

Wow I forgot about this guide. I did "finish" it, but I forgot to update it.

Updated.

simple tutorial/guide. I enjoyed it.

good job, sinistah.

Ooo Myyy God.. I can't believe I've stumbled upon this thread talking about one of my most hated topics in Toribash today.. I should bring upon this thread a crapload of profanity and misspelled words on how I hate shovelers but my laziness proceeds to overwhelm me..

While I do have to admit that this thread serves a good cause in trying to educate people on countering shovels theres one problem...

Won't shovel users just take these replays and "counter the counter"

And also another issue that hasnt been brought up yet. What about the victim of the shovel that gets caught by surprise?

Meaning you start up a match with your own opener thinking everything is well and then BAM.. Your opponent lowers his arms and has contracted his pecs the first turn and your stuck in your 'trying to give your opponent a hug' phase. Can you counter from there? In aikido? Chances are slim to none (unless you're lucky).

And then when you lose and you try to say something along the lines of "use another opener" all you usually get in response is something like:

"Oh your just mad that you dont have enough skill to beat the shovel"
and something else from another random guy:

"My opener automatically counters the shovel!!11 DD"


I'm not a sore loser n all (most of the time anyway) but the shovel takes away a lot of the fun in toribash and theres no point in denying that. My openers are usually playful in nature and the point of them is not really to win but to have an epically fun match (I try to do flips and stuffs ). And when a shoveler comes along and just gently taps me outside of the ring with little to no effort and says "gg" it pisses me off..

I've said this many times before in-game ( well at least I think I did =/): "Shoveling in an aikido match is the equivalent to bringing a gun to a knife fight, it just takes the fun out of the dam thing.."

Well I've said all I had to say G'day ... *Prepares for the bashing of the millennium*

So I'm trying to help you and you plan to repay me with a post littered with profanity and mispelled words?


Ah, I see. You notice that I'm on your side and I'm trying to solve the problem instead of creating more. Go on.


Of course. That's how a game evolves. A counter adapts to take out the strongest move. After that, the next smartest player in line creates the new move to counter what just happened and overpower it. After a while, you end up having a string of counters yada yada yada... Overall it creates a decent line of moves to remember, which define "skill" in a game.


Well this is why I said that there's no true way to counter a shovel with a basic move. You need to create a very flexible move, like Dokwon did with his opener (contracting both hips, extending both glutes, and contracting his abs) to allow him to assess his opponent before reacting. He usually would spend his second turn somewhat the same, but instead, he'd contract his right glute and keep his right pec held. I simply edited it slightly in order to accomodate the counter-shoveling portion. If you try it, you'll see that his normal move is far stronger than the strange mutation I've suggested.


This is called poor sportsmanship. I do it quite a bit because I'm a troll, but when I'm being serious, this is just to cause an emotional reaction from you to make you lose focus. Best thing to do is man up, shrug it off, and keep playing. Next time around, kick his ass and tell him what's up.


You could learn a thing or two from them. Watch what they do in order to counter the shovel, then implement that into your playstyle.


Define "fun" in this sentence. Are you talking about the *lame flailing around in pretty rainbows of colors* "fun" or the *outsmart your opponents and know for a fact that you're better than them* "fun"?


Denying what? That it takes out the fun? No, it doesn't. What it does is give you an opportunity to kick someone's ass. Yeah, sometimes you'd rather just use an opener such as a kick or try something new like a quick drop and planting your fist in their face. But the game doesn't understand that. The game understands winning and losing and nothing else. If you don't like how you win or lose, I suggest you create your own game with rules that fit your liking. Right now, you're talking about some made up ruleset that says people shouldn't win.


With what you just described, you might want to try Free Play and see if you can do something for a gymnastics tournament or something.


It's really not. You have the same gun as he does: Your arms. There's nothing he can do that you can't. You think he can catch you off guard? You could catch him off guard just as easily. Think about it.


I hope my bashing was fulfulling. Oh, and as an added bonus, I've attached 3 replays of me failing against people using their normal openers. I responded poorly, of course, but any average shoveler would fall for these same tricks. Learn from what others do and become stronger.

I really want to play a couple games with you.

You want to keep shoveling? Great. But realize you will never cease to be resented and rejected by nearly everyone, deter new members away from this game, and be a fly on the wall to people who want to actually learn and improve their skills.

have fun.