is it in a desirable state?

if not, what could save the economy?

would you rather break your back, neck and legs for a 512 head texture rather than everyone being able to purchase one?

would you rather have everyone in the community running around with at least 10,000 tc?

SHOULD art be as expensive as it is? should textures be as expensive as they are right now?

SHOULD staff bring back 5000 tc tournaments but raise the prize money? would that do good for the economy?

is it in a desirable state?: You can't have a desirable economy when the game itself is stagnant.

if not, what could save the economy?: Saving the game would be a good start.

would you rather have everyone in the community running around with at least 10,000 tc?: They would ultimately end up losing it in bets / duels unless they are good at the game, that's why average / bad players are poor while the good players can easily get millions of TC.

SHOULD art be as expensive as it is? should textures be as expensive as they are right now?: Art prices are a natural occurrence, there's no system in place that dictates what art is valued at other than what people are willing to pay for it.

SHOULD staff bring back 5000 tc tournaments but raise the prize money? would that do good for the economy?: Staff need to do many things, but they have been busy hiring femboys in furry suits for the last couple of years and now we see most players have been perma banned for nonsense. Wonder why nobody plays anymore hmmm....maybe becuase they got banned for 'harrassment / transphobia' or some other progressive woke bullshit nobody cares about except the ones in positions of power. just my opinion tho.

If I say something that sounds wrong, please let me know

1. What exactly do we desire? Nothing you can purchase with toricredits has any effect on the mechanics of the game or forum. Participation in that aspect of the game is entirely optional. If you do choose to participate in the economy, it probably comes out of your own vanity, greed, need to feel included, or a mixture of of the bunch. I suppose there is nothing (well, not nothing, but I digress) wrong with that considering it's just fake money and fake things. However...
The role of real money (USD, usually) complicates things. The figure lurking in the background, calling all the shots, is the dollar. Not only do some players choose to accumulate many toricredits to later sell for real money, but the game itself survives, as far as I know, solely on the USD purchases that people make in the shop*. I don't know of any other revenue streams (we selling data?). So, ultimately it's in the game's best interest to make sure people continue to assign value to the superficial aspects of gameplay in order to keep the cash flowing. That brings me back to the subject of desirability--the question is, "is the current state desirable?" and to that you need to add, "is the current state desirable, and for whom?"
(*I just remembered there is also merch now, too)

And I say, for the current players, it is probably fine. The game has seen a declining population in recent years, but the economy is fluid for the most part so it should scale itself to fit the player base. Despite that, I've noticed that the tc/USD exchange rate has gone up slightly but I think it's nothing to worry about. I think that the longer you play the game, the better you get at obtaining toricredits, and more years also just gives you more time to hoard toricredits (I've heard some people do this). Because there are fewer new players joining the game, the old people here naturally end up with more money. That, coupled with new ways to earn toricredits in-game I think are the main reasons for the higher tc/USD rate. Of course, more players in the game would make the economy "faster" for the average person, and you might say that makes it more fun, and that could be desirable for some people. You can draw an interesting parallel between a game like this with a declining player base and a country with a decreasing birthrate, if you feel like comparing a simple game to an infinitely more complex economic system that many people spend their whole lives studying. There's something there, though

As for the game, I don't know what the current cash flows are like compared to what is "desirable." Ask hampa or something. Personally I'd be interested in knowing the figures. I wonder what the rate of players who at some point will make a USD purchase is and what the indicators are for that. I would guess the person's age at the time of account creation is significant. I also guess that the longer person players, the less likely they are to spend USD in the shop (new players = more money?).

2. Like I said, more players would make the economy more engaging, but that's not necessarily an indicator of its health at any single point in time. Long term health, however, would benefit from more players. Eventually you'll end up with the last two stragglers, trading empty set boxes for chronos grips.

3. Honestly, yes. It looks like right now the best way for new players to get toricredits is to play the game every day and collect the rewards. I believe people have said throughout the years that the game has a high early turnover rate (this could just be self-congratulatory bullshit, I have no idea) and keeping the new players engaged long enough for them to start having real fun with it is important. This is also where what I said about the game's best interest returns. It's important for new players to see impressive, older players with fancy colors and interesting textures because that instills in them a desire to at some point make their tori look cool too (and spend some dollars in the process).

4. I mean, if everyone just ends up with 10,000 tc, that's probably fine. I don't think sending everyone 10k will do any good though lol

5. I don't know a single thing about toribash art but it's probably expensive for two reasons: one, maybe there aren't that many texture artists in the game right now, but the ones who are here are quite good? or think they're quite good? And two, newer players are not making a transition to the forums, meaning there just isn't enough demand for cheaper textures to justify taking up an artist's time. Ideally there would be a spectrum of prices, but I guess as long as people are paying these supposedly high fees that artist's are charging, it's fine

6. I don't think they should do that, I hardly ever see anyone playing in those 2500tc rooms. I don't think that would help anything.

I don't know what the plans are for toribash's future, but for best results long term I recommend recruiting more players. I'm interested to see how the new changes to the game will pan out

I’d like to say, despite the downvotes both crith and wounder bring up valid points (if you ignore the staff hiring femboys in fursuits part).

If I were given the opportunity to make a significant change in this game, here’s what I would do: create more incentives other than being able to look as cool as veteran players. For example, giving players the opportunity to make a name for themselves and be known as the best in the world. Imagine TWC (Toribash World Championships) if it was streamed live for everyone to see the individual matches played. Kind of like how official fighting game tournaments such as Tekken are handled. I believe it can be done with some effort. I think Toribash as an esport should be taken more seriously. What if we increased the stakes? Two of the richest players currently have at least 20 million tc respectively. Would it be too crazy to host a TWC with a grand prize of 20 million tc?

If we take the rate of tc being sold relative to the US dollar, that would be quite a lot of monies. That would surely incentivize players to grind and take the game seriously. I know for a fact a lot of players would come back and grind for $100 worth of tc.
Add in the the possibility of it being streamed live, and posted on Toribash’s official youtube page, now there’s a potential of being well known in the community as well as rich TC-wise. Now you can look cool and be cool.

This is what I see in Toribash’s future and if sir is willing, this can very well be made possible. Not to mention the Parkour and Realism communities that already make videos of their replays.

I’d imagine all of this would kickstart a new era of Toribash and, in turn, be benificial for the economy and market also. I strongly suggest Nabi look into this.

edit: After giving it a little more thought I realized that there have been more ways of gaining tc added into the game in recent updates with the addition of login rewards, challenges, all sorts of stuff. A player who plays every day for 2 weeks will easily be able to gain 10,000 tc just by logging on so technically everyone already is running around with 10k.

If Toribash esports won’t be a thing I will make it happen MYSELF IF I HAVE TO GODDAMMIT!

You can meme all u want about competitive toribash but just know we are a large chunk of the playerbase! Sure, make toribash a realism/replaymaking community instead and keep it true to its sandbox roots. WE’LL SEE HOW LONG IT LASTS!

We are just as passionate about this game as those replaymakers are! ARGUABLY EVEN MORE SO!

I think it’s about time we embrace the duelers. It’s for the health of the game, m’kay?

I have some... t h o u g h t s

Toribash Esports CAN be a thing.

The thing Toribash lacks is change. The meta isn't changing that much imo. Old players use the same broken tactics.


Also, the lack of COOL events make the ES look like complete slackers. I joined shitty ETourneys where they modify the mod's gravity, add a dojo in boxshumushu, tori's are back-to-back, etc... and coming from the RANK 3 PLAYER OF TORIBASH DURING SEASON 1, it doesn't look competitive. It makes Toribash look like a joke.


One thing the ES could've done (examples incoming) was analyze which moves in lenshu3ng are broken (mostly contract knee openers/kicking openers)
then nerf those openers by making minor adjustments in mod maker, such as decreasing the foot sizes

another example would be runners in lenshu3ng; they could decrease the dojo size by a few numbers to "nerf runners"

heck, they could also add 100k winpoints to reward aggressive players in ABD because a lot of players lift

but I don't see ES implementing those ^^^ :rolling_eyes: :rolling_eyes: :rolling_eyes:


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I think the new market was made to generate $$$ and sink TC.


TC needs to get sunk


Well, to balance the rising TC problem, I think automatic lotteries (weekly, every 2 weeks, or for a month) could be a thing.





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I personally think that if the ingame UI was made more minimalistic with a bit of cool animations, it would attract more people.


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I actually planned on creating a meta moves list for noobs
the motivation was to teach them what moves seem good and why
planned on basing off those meta moves on tournament replays


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Oh wellzies, whatever


Toribash is kinda in an "eh" situation right now.


If people knew that they could gain $$$ by playing toribash, they'd play this game for sure.

I agree with Karstnator here that Toribash lacks change. What I think the problem is, however is how dueling works and how it’s generally accepted in the community despite dueling not being a true testament of skill.

If you watch duels between two players and one player is richer than the other, the player with more TC has a significant advantage over the player who has less. This is because you can’t afford to lose as many games as the player who has more TC. The competitive community has come to accept this as the main way to play the game and the main way to test your skill against others but I think this is very flawed.

The true problem is the majority of us pro players and the ones who are rich are fine with running, the state of competitive mods and how tournaments are run because it’s easier to cheese. We should not be okay with this. Another strategy that I see most players do is TC raising. TC raising is a huge problem that I see in the dueling community and if you’re a player with more TC it gives you the advantage. It creates a scenario where your opponent can only lose 2 games while you can be able to afford to lose more. I’ve seen duels where the player with more TC lost 2-7 against another player and still came out on top. This needs to stop. It’s a predatory strategy and it’s purely about money rather than truly seeing who the better player is.

Problem is, the only ones who CAN stop this are staff. They continue to host these tournaments with the same gamerules and the same mods and I’m not sure if it’s because they’re lazy or it’s for fear of losing their most dedicated players. Whatever the case, they refuse to change the way they run tournaments and we have to bring it upon ourselves to bring about this change. If they won’t do it, we will.

Speaking of gamerules in competitive mods there are very many optimal solutions that I have come up with in concerns to lenshu. Winpoint is the best way to go. It is the best possible way to make lenshu truly a competitive mod.


TL;DR the way competitive tournaments are handled is the problem and this is because of the dueling community and staff. WAR TORIBASH.

Not going to speak for ES and/or modmakers, but my impression has always been that despite asking for change, hardcore players actually take it very poorly. Each time mods are tweaked in any way that's not already commonly used by players, staff get shit for it and are asked to revert everything back - so it's very likely that ES just gave up at this point.

Fun mods/tourneys, on the other hand, provide more room for experiments - you add some weird gamerules that break the existing meta and require players to come up with something new, but you don't have to test the mod for months to make sure it's true to esports standards. Considering all our staff are volunteers, it makes sense nobody would want to spend their time arguing over how competitive the mod they're hosting their event in is.

I figured you’d say that sir because of the lack of changes in mods but I’d have to disagree. Hardcore players DO accept change.

Winpoint lenshu is a mod where dismemberment is disabled, frames are set to 1000 and the winpoint limit is 100k points. It is, in my opinion, the true competitive version of lenshu3ng and in Endurance Onslaught we were able to consistently gather 64 players. This wasn’t just because of the prizes. The mod itself was pretty fun to play and offered a fair competition.

Player feedback is always a good thing unless all the feedback you get is “change it back now” then I guess it isn’t. Please keep this in mind when making new changes to comp mods.

this thread has done nothing at all



cya toribash! ^_^