Originally Posted by Thorn
the nature of floyd's character is irrelevant; the protests are not about him specifically and I think that's very obvious
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests
Originally Posted by Thorn
and arguing about floyd's nature to discredit the movement is myopic and immature
The death itself was fucked up and the cop should definitely be tried for murder. But if I remember correctly, right when George Floyd was murdered all the headlines were like 'White Cop murders Black Man' and the media was automatically trying to pin the murder as a hate-crime, meanwhile the newly released Body-Cam footage pretty much shows it was never about race, and in my opinion this makes all the rioting even more silly.
Remember this? Still think they are going to do it ?
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/George-Floyd-will-tour-the-South-in-hologram-15443773.php
Last edited by McFarbo; Aug 6, 2020 at 05:03 AM.
Originally Posted by McFarbo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests
what's your point? I could make guesses, but it would be much easier if you simply said it. you're probably saying that because they are called George Floyd protests by Wikipedia, it must be only about the killing of George Floyd. which is wrong, but just tell us what is your point.
Originally Posted by McFarbo
The death itself was fucked up and the cop should definitely be tried for murder. But if I remember correctly, right when George Floyd was murdered all the headlines were like 'White Cop murders Black Man' and the media was automatically trying to pin the murder as a hate-crime
Why would they report a killing by the police as anything else than that? And of course the media will respond like that, it's been proven by numerous studies that police kill proportionally far more black people than white. It's a thing in the US, you know. Been like that for decades.
EDIT: after a quick search, I can't find an article that paints the killing as a hate crime. there are articles about Floyd's niece saying that, but that's more of an article about her saying it, not a journalistic piece discussing (or even raging) how it's a hate crime.
Originally Posted by McFarbo
meanwhile the newly released Body-Cam footage pretty much shows it was never about race, and in my opinion this makes all the rioting even more silly.
What makes it "never about race" in your mind? I'd like to know. Because no racial slurs were said?
I don't think you quite realize how deep the systemic racism goes. US is often in the spotlight, but it happens in all white-majority countries, too, to varying degrees. fudgiebalz linked to a document (thank you, I tried to find that document but couldn't) filled with studies regarding the subject. Let me copy some statements here:
- Black people facing similar low-level charges as white people were 68 percent less likely to see those charges dismissed in court. More than 90 percent of the arrest warrants stemming from failure to pay/failure to appear were issued for black people.
- Today, Blacks are 3.7x as likely to be arrested for a marijuana offense as Whites, despite similar usage.
97% of “large-population counties” have racial biases in their drug offense incarceration.
- Blacks were more than twice as likely as whites to be searched after traffic stops even after controlling for related variables, though they proved to be 26 percent less likely to be in possession of illegal drugs or weapons.
- The black population of DC is 25% greater than the white population, but black people were 410% more likely to be stopped by the police than white people
- Analysis finds the bar for searching black and hispanic drivers’ cars is significantly lower than the bar for white drivers.
- Examination of federal data indicates Black Americans spend about 10% more time in prison when compared to comparable Whites who commit the same crimes.
- Between 1990 and 2010, state prosecutors struck about 53% of black people eligible for juries in criminal cases, as opposed to 26% of white people. The study’s authors testified the odds of this taking place in a race-neutral context were around 1 in 10 trillion.
- Black defendants are 4.5 times as likely to receive a death sentence as similarly-situated whites.
And so on, and so forth. And that's nowhere near to the whole; there's still the matter of education, jobs, healthcare, and so much more. The police might have not said anything racist, but the fact that they pointed a gun at an unarmed black person, used a not by-the-book restraining method that can easily become lethal, and well, KILLED him, is very much what has been studied to be systemic racism. And why the police in the US should be defunded.
also, one thing I noticed:
Originally Posted by McFarbo
The death itself was fucked up and the cop should definitely be tried for murder. But
do you recognize the pattern here?
Last edited by Tonakai; Aug 6, 2020 at 01:05 PM.
Originally Posted by gunop
I don't think the killing wasn't racially motivated. The new footage combined with prior evidence shows that he was on just about every drug and clearly wasn't cooperating. Particularly he had enough fentanyl for it to be lethal. One of the symptoms it causes is trouble breathing. He even tested positive for COVID for god's sake. ... the fact that he was saying "I can't breathe" before he was on the ground is just the ultimate mockery.
Only fentanyl and metamphetamine were found, which come from a single drug. "Just about every drug" is a lie. He had corona-virus far before this encounter took place, and had recovered from it. Him having enough fentanyl for it to be lethal for him is a misunderstanding of the data and/or a lie; in fact, it's a strategy often used to blame black victims as drug-crazed to make the killing seem justified. Nothing can be deducted from him saying "I can't breathe" before hitting the ground. In fact, the police drew their gun at George Floyd immediately while he had his hands visible and was in no way aggressive. Considering the fact he had already been shot before (a rather traumatic experience, I'd say), not to mention all the systemic racism that black people suffer, I'd say it's not surprising he was a little uncooperative.
Originally Posted by gunop
Even besides that it's unacceptable how the media twisted it. It's disappointing that this months old information is only coming to light with the recently leaked footage. ... The body cam footage doesn't even extend to the point where he was on the ground, so we still don't even know everything that went on.
From the beginning we had footage of the police keeping their knee on Floyd's neck for almost nine minutes. It's right there, in broad daylight, no censoring. The new video shows nothing new. In fact, it shows the above-mentioned fact they had a gun on unarmed George Floyd right from the beginning, which is something that extremely rarely happens with white people.
He still died from having a knee on his neck for almost nine minutes. No amount of "he was on drugs", "he had corona-virus", "he was uncooperative", "he had a criminal past" will change that fact.
Originally Posted by gunop
Systemic racism is a real issue and the fight for equality is the one good thing to come out of Floyd's death. However after all the looting and hate for the police it's hard to say if it will even net a positive outcome. People not realizing that violence is cylical is one of the greatest pitfalls of humanity. To quote Martin Luther King: "Violence as a way of achieving racial justice is both impractical and immoral"
See my earlier post on this. To summarize: Yes, it is bad, but it is a natural outcome from decades of peaceful protests that have dutifully been ignored. They have no choice; at this point, change won't happen by just yelling or kneeling or whatever from the sidelines. The authorities know this, and is why they cry for civility, which people eat up, because it's logical that violence is bad, therefore the riots are bad.
Besides, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the law that outlaws discrimination based on race, colour, religion, sex or national origin, was passed after six days of rioting after the death of Martin Luther King. Ironically enough, considering your quote.
Originally Posted by gunop
I don't think the killing wasn't racially motivated.
Maybe not. We can't know. Doesn't make systemic racism any less of a problem.
Originally Posted by gunop
The new footage combined with prior evidence shows that he was on just about every drug and clearly wasn't cooperating.
This isn't grounds for an execution.
Originally Posted by gunop
Particularly he had enough fentanyl for it to be lethal. One of the symptoms it causes is trouble breathing. He even tested positive for COVID for god's sake.
The autopsy report said the reason he died was the pressure being exerted on his neck for 8 minutes.
Originally Posted by gunop
Even besides that it's unacceptable how the media twisted it.
I can't really speak to media coverage as I'm not from the US, but I am curious to know what you think was twisted.
Originally Posted by gunop
It's disappointing that this months old information is only coming to light with the recently leaked footage.
The toxicology report was available as a part of the autopsy report?
Originally Posted by gunop
And above all, the fact that he was saying "I can't breathe" before he was on the ground is just the ultimate mockery. The body cam footage doesn't even extend to the point where he was on the ground, so we still don't even know everything that went on.
You just said fentanyl can cause trouble breathing. It could have been entirely factual. That doesn't even matter though, as it's not fucking grounds for an execution. There's also plenty of bystander videos that show what happens after.
Originally Posted by gunop
Systemic racism is a real issue and the fight for equality is the one good thing to come out of Floyd's death. However after all the looting and hate for the police it's hard to say if it will even net a positive outcome. People not realizing that violence is cylical is one of the greatest pitfalls of humanity. To quote Martin Luther King: "Violence as a way of achieving racial justice is both impractical and immoral"
Looting isn't part of the movement.
I agree that hating all police and being violent isn't super helpful, but from what I've heard there have been plenty of peaceful protests but nothing has changed. I don't see many options for the protesters but to escalate if there is to be significant change.
Originally Posted by gunop
It's late at night and I'll probably edit this later. Just an hour ago I thought his death was completely unacceptable, but after reading about all this new info I have to get this out before I go to bed.
Are you seriously saying his death is acceptable after seeing the footage and finding out about his drug usage?
Derek Chauvin was charged with second degree murder. The court had access to all of the information that the public has, and more. The court finds the death unacceptable.
Last edited by fudgiebalz; Aug 9, 2020 at 08:58 PM.
alright guy
