Toribash
Original Post
Dear Cishet People
Hopefully this doesn’t come across as too “stream of consciousness” like. I know it’ll be rather long and not many will read it, but I’ve wanted to share my thoughts on these topics for a while now, and Toribash is the community where these things affect me most, because of the amount of socializing done on the forums, ingame, and on discord. It’s just nice to collect my thoughts on it all anyways. I’m open to answering almost any question as long as it’s constructive in some way.

I’d like to talk about two things in particular. I’ll first cover pretty much all things related to being transgender and then discuss what being LGBTQ/trans on an online game is like. I’ve been spurred to write this by the surprising (maybe not so surprising?) amount of ignorance I’ve encountered since coming out. Just know that this is all from my point of view only and is in no way representative of trans people as a whole, but a lot of it will apply to a good portion of the trans population anyways.

So first things first... being transgender just means not necessarily strictly identifying with your gender assigned at birth. I say “gender assigned at birth” and not “biological gender” because a lot of people are much more biologically similar to the opposite sex after hormones or surgery. Anyone who is not transgender is cisgender. One shouldn’t use the term “transsexual” because it assumes that the person is intending to physically transition in some way, and that’s not always the case. It’s safe to use either “trans” or “transgender” (as adjectives, NOT nouns). Those who are non-binary (don’t associate fully with either male or female) are also trans. I am non-binary (enby or nb for short) myself. I came to this conclusion after thinking about who I am, what makes me me. When I think about myself, I don’t really think about a gender; I’m much more defined by my passions, my actions, my views and opinions, my mannerisms, etc. That being said, I’ve found that acting a bit more feminine feels easier, more natural, and by extension I feel I’d like to look cuter and more feminine, because I’d feel more comfortable acting the way I do. This is essentially why I’m transitioning, but there are tons of other reasons others do. Some feel they’ve always been the opposite gender stuck in the wrong body, sometimes even before puberty. Others just asked themselves “well if I could wake up tomorrow as either gender with no repercussions, which would I pick?” If they picked the opposite binary gender and thought about it enough, they may identify as trans. Like I said, there are countless reasons, and none is more “valid” than others. I’ll cover this a bit more in the next paragraph. I’d like to note that pronouns and names are so important to so many trans people because those things are indicative of how others think of you. If I do not feel like a guy, it doesn’t feel great to be addressed as one. Think about a more masculine looking cisgender girl being called a guy in person; it’s a bit insulting, and it hurts even more to some trans people. It’s also important to understand that trans women are women and trans men are men; they are not “women/men who want to be men/women” and thinking about them in this way, even subconsciously, is transphobic.

I’ve seen a lot of trans gatekeeping, where one questions why exactly another person feels they identify as something other than their gender assigned at birth and whether they actually qualify as trans. I can’t stress this point here enough - it does not matter. If the person is confused and exploring their identity, it’ll be helpful to them to call them by whatever they’d like to be called, use the pronouns they’d like, so that they can get a better understanding of themselves and know whether it feels right. If the person is very much sure of their identity, calling them by the correct name and pronouns is doubly important because it deserves to be legitimized. Calling someone by the incorrect name/pronouns reminds them of the old identity they’re trying to escape, even if you made a mistake. Most all of the time, they’ll casually remind you of the correct name/pronouns. Please don’t take it as an insult or take it to mean that they are offended by what you’ve said. It’s just to remind you in case you forgot, and maybe to clear up any misunderstanding for anyone who might be listening in. If it was just a mistake, there’s no need to be offended. A small apology or “oops” suffices. If you’re purposefully misgendering however, don’t expect a cordial response, because it’s rather malicious behavior. I’ve also seen some say something to the effect of “well you look like a guy/you have a penis, so that’s how I’ll address you.” If it makes me feel better to use the correct pronouns, and any honest mistakes on your part will be excused, is it really so much trouble to attempt to use the correct name/pronouns? A good amount of people have a hard time understanding why we care so much about our pronouns because they’re cisgender and do not experience the dysphoria most trans people do. Some trans people don’t care so much about pronouns, but the majority do. I feel more comfortable acting in a more stereotypically feminine way, I’d feel more comfortable if I looked feminine, and those thoughts become pretty pervasive. It has gotten to the point where I feel pretty crappy about my masculine features which haven’t changed yet; being reminded of my (slowly disappearing) masculine side feels shitty. I’m getting more comfortable with my masculinity overall, but certainly not as much the physical side of it. As a bit of a side note, it would be fantastic if people would practice using they/them pronouns to refer to people they do not know the gender of; lots of people assume everyone in an online game goes by he/him and having to correct this mistake gets quite tiresome.

Gender nonconformity needs to be normalized. Whether it is the type of clothes a person decides to wear, the makeup or piercings they may or may not have, or the body parts they have or desire, no superficial characteristic determines or specifies gender. While gender is quite a ball of stereotypes, nobody needs to act a certain way, look a certain way, wear certain clothes, or have certain body parts to identify as any specific gender. Having a penis does not make one a man, acting in a stereotypically feminine manner does not make one a woman, etc. We need to stop judging people by the way they outwardly appear. Criticizing a person’s behavior or appearance as being gender nonconforming is ridiculous. Let people act and dress the way they’d like as long as it’s not hurting anyone.

Against my better judgement, I want to touch on sexual attraction to trans people (or lack thereof). Being grossed out by the thought of a trans person’s body is not okay. Being grossed out by the thought of any healthy human body is not okay. You may not be particularly attracted to the genitals a person has, but their body is not disgusting for having those genitals. For all those that don’t want to see dicks on models/characters in spaces where porn is shared… well I see vaginas all the time in those kinds of spaces and though I’m not particularly attracted to them, it’s seriously not a big deal seeing them. Saying you are “not attracted to trans people” is transphobic. There are plenty of trans people who have the genitals and bodies you are attracted to (remember that plenty of non-binary people don’t change their presentation and don’t seek any medical intervention and that some trans people have surgeries to change their genitals). Granted, I myself have dated a few trans masculine people who have vaginas and it, again, wasn’t a big deal at all. We didn’t use that part while engaging in sexual activities and that was that. Having an extreme aversion to specific genitals is often subconsciously homophobic; I’ve known plenty of guys who refuse to even look at a penis because they’re so concerned with other people perceiving them as straight. I’ve also known plenty of straight guys who claim they wouldn’t even be attracted to trans women who have had GCS (genital confirmation surgery) because they know they “used to be men.” This is disgusting and transphobic; they are women and seeing them as anything else is wrong. Trans chasing is also an issue for lots of trans people, but I don’t see too much of it in this community and you can look that up yourself if you want to learn more.

Next, I want to talk about gay jokes. Let’s get one thing straight (hehe), being gay is not inherently funny and gay acts aren’t either. For a lot of us, gay shit is just… normal. Making fun of people for being gay is just homophobic and harmful overall. Making fun of someone by calling them gay, whether or not you mean it, implies that you think being gay is funny or a joke in some way. It’s just life for so many of us, so thinking it’s weird or a joke is insensitive. Spreading the idea that gay things are funny is problematic because it perpetuates the idea that being gay is “weird” in some sense. It’s only ever funny to people because it is not “normal” to them. Gay jokes from queer people are only ever funny because they’re satirizing homophobes. Using the word “gay” to mean “bad” or “stupid” is obviously also problematic. Whether you’re actually homophobic or not, you’re suggesting that “gay” means “stupid” on some level. You’re spreading a harmful sentiment. The same can be said of using the word “retarded” to mean “idiotic.” There’s also a big issue with something I call “The South Park Ideology” which is essentially the mindstate of a troll. It is taking the piss out of anyone and everyone. It sort of suggests that nobody is actually really genuine and selfless, so it is okay to make fun of everyone for anything. Punching down makes for some seriously shitty comedy. Why make fun of those who have it so much worse off for the things that make them so much worse off? It is simply a cheap way for the writer of the joke and the audience to feel better about themselves. They put others who have it worse down to lift themselves up, which is disgusting behavior. Making fun of the rich is okay because they’re doing very harmful things and hold a lot of power. Making fun of queer people is not okay because we’re not doing anything wrong (and if you disagree here… well have fun being a homophobe/transphobe) and we have very little power over anyone else. It’s also extremely easy to remove slurs from your vocabulary in order to avoid spreading problematic ideas. If you think this is against your “free speech,” you either lack the empathy of a good person or you’re privileged as all fuck and you need to do some learning.

Lastly, I want to talk about being an ally and creating an inviting environment for all sorts of people. I will start off by saying that you’re not a true ally (of any minority) if you do not fight to stop others from saying harmful and problematic things. A LGBTQ ally will tell a friend not to substitute the word “gay” for the word “stupid” and explain why it is problematic. A true ally would not associate with homophobes or transphobes. Being an ally is not just simply informing yourself and preventing yourself from saying shitty things, but actively fighting for us the way that we would. It’s even easier to fight for us as a cishet person because you have the advantage of people taking you seriously! Even if you have LGBTQ friends who think you’re alright, if you’re not fighting for them (when the situation arises) when surrounded by cishet people, you’re not an ally; you’re a coward. If you care at all about having a more diverse playerbase, you’ll take all of these things to heart. Women don’t want to play online games in which they’re constantly objectified and made the butt of jokes. LGBTQ people don’t want to play with people that hate them for things they have no control over, or with people who think they are weird or gross for these things. You have the ability to help make Toribash a more inviting place for people of all genders, races, sexualities, and religions. Being a sexist/racist/homophobic/transphobic/antisemitic troll actively hinders our progress. Think about your actions.

If you read the whole thing, thank you so much for putting up with my rant. I didn’t originally intend for it to be a rant, but it just kinda came out that way. I’m tired of all of the shit I have to put up with ingame. I want my trans friends to feel comfortable in the space. I want for them not to have to hide who they are for fear of being ostracized the way that I am.
<Hush> the beat feature sounds like the main event at a circle jerk festival
Cishet sounds like Pashtet in my head

(mm i love pashtet, boom)
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I don't "fight" for or against anyone passively (on purpose anyways)


If I personally see someone being harrassed regardless and I know the context then sure, I might just tell em to stop being an ass, but I won't give them a whole earful, my point is already made by calling them what they are, a fart.


Internet and real world culture will always be skewed negatively no matter who fights against what, anyways
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There's a "place" for everything long as someone wants to put it in one, but you can't really get people to associate with things (TB LGBTQ community for example) if they truly don't want anything to do with it, that's what we all have to deal with.

Fyi I do not support no oppose the LGBTQ community by any means, do what you like long as it's not fucked up
Last edited by Goomba; Nov 22, 2019 at 12:47 AM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
[🥒] x2 🥒x16

v


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Originally Posted by Maya View Post
I’ve known plenty of guys who refuse to even look at a penis because they’re so concerned with other people perceiving them as straight.

Freshman year of college I had three roommates. One would walk around in his underwear a lot and we would always joke he should whip it out and show us. Well one day we're chilling in our dorm, possibly intoxicated I can't remember, and he comes in in his underwear. The topic somehow shifts to like hot girls or something, maybe porn, idk, anyways he's like "Guys I have a boner". We joke he's gotta show us now, he can't just say that and leave us hanging. Neither me or my roommate expect him to actually whip that shit out right? Well the madlad does it, and holy shit, it was fucking MASSIVE. Me and my other roommate (the fully clothed one) exchange looks trying to gauge if we're thinking the same thing. We were, and we let him know, I mean that shit was fucking HUGE, by far the biggest dick I've ever seen though I don't feel like I've seen an exceptional amount of penises.


After that we'd parade him around to our other close friends and essentially try and convince them to take a look at his fully erect penis. It'd go like "Dude, this might sound gay, but like for science, you have to look at his fully erect penis. No homo but it's fucking massive, like you wanna see this, you'll see what we're talking about." Everyone was of course always hesitant and like "No I don't wanna see it" but eventually we'd convince them to take a glance and they'd get it, they'd understand, they always understood. Just one look and they were blown away.


Anyways that's the story of how me and my friends paraded one of my roommates around like a damn circus freak trying to convince other people to look at his massive erect penis.

Need help? PM me!
إد هو العاهرة
Originally Posted by Goomba View Post
I don't "fight" for or against anyone passively (on purpose anyways)


If I personally see someone being harrassed regardless and I know the context then sure, I might just tell em to stop being an ass, but I won't give them a whole earful, my point is already made by calling them what they are, a fart.

I never said you had to give them a whole earful... just make it known that what they're doing is wrong. If they continue to do it, well why would you be friends with them?
Originally Posted by Goomba View Post
Internet and real world culture will always be skewed negatively no matter who fights against what, anyways
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There's a "place" for everything long as someone wants to put it in one, but you can't really get people to associate with things (TB LGBTQ community for example) if they truly don't want anything to do with it, that's what we all have to deal with.

I have no idea what any of this even means.
Originally Posted by Goomba View Post
Fyi I do not support no oppose the LGBTQ community by any means, do what you like long as it's not fucked up

But like... why don't you support it?
<Hush> the beat feature sounds like the main event at a circle jerk festival
Forced normalization of things just does not work within social issues like this. Prejudice to things outside of the norm is ingrained in human beings.
Basically what you're asking for is to wrap everyone and everything in cotton wool and make everybody feel special and make sure nobody is offended, or at least adapt to things in control of others. (eg the pronouns thing)

It's cool if you are trans and shit just don't expect people to jump on board with your new-found rule set they must abide by to not offend you. This doesn't mean everybody thinks you aren't worthy of acceptance, it's just that people don't work that way. You're essentially beating a dead horse.

But if you feel you're dealing justice then keep fighting, one wall of text on a video game forum at a time.
Originally Posted by mwah View Post
so when you were 5 you thought you were a girl?

Nope.
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
Forced normalization of things just does not work within social issues like this. Prejudice to things outside of the norm is ingrained in human beings.

I'm very aware of this. I'm working to help break down that xenophobia in any way I can, because it is an important step for humanity.
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
Basically what you're asking for is to wrap everyone and everything in cotton wool and make everybody feel special and make sure nobody is offended, or at least adapt to things in control of others. (eg the pronouns thing)

I never said everyone should feel special... they just shouldn't be invalidated for their personal identities. If it makes them happy/comfortable, why not learn their preferences? Hell I have friends who identify as demons and I happily refer to them as such because it makes them feel comfortable, heard, cared for.
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
It's cool if you are trans and shit just don't expect people to jump on board with your new-found rule set they must abide by to not offend you. This doesn't mean everybody thinks you aren't worthy of acceptance, it's just that people don't work that way. You're essentially beating a dead horse.

By calling it a "new-found rule set they must abide by not to offend [me]" you're invalidating trans people as a whole. We're not changing reality and forcing people to play along. We're transgender whether we like it or not (and believe be, we don't like it) and I've just laid out how one would theoretically act if they really did believe trans people were valid in their identities. If this "rule set" doesn't work for you, then you think we're all just making this shit up, and that's transphobic...
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
But if you feel you're dealing justice then keep fighting, one wall of text on a video game forum at a time.

It is very important to me to fight for this. I want to help reduce community transphobia in any way I can, help people learn. I don't care if you think it's a worthy cause or not.
<Hush> the beat feature sounds like the main event at a circle jerk festival
Originally Posted by Maya View Post
If this "rule set" doesn't work for you, then you think we're all just making this shit up, and that's transphobic...

Not believing people on merit is transphobic?
Former Item Forger
so when did you decide to feel like another gender?
I eat genders for breakfast so i have no issue with or against the issue ill continue living either way for now, gender is a set thing your what you were born as, you can think your something else if you want ill probably misgender you for an amount of time until i forget about it or something