Toribash
You’ll have to forgive me for not investing myself completely into the OP due to work related time constraints, but from scanning through the responses in particular, I felt an urge to clear some things up and address some common misdemeanours.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I was under the impression the umbrella term is no longer ‘Trans people’ and is now more commonly accepted as ‘Trans*’.
If I may add a personal input I also feel like addressing the topic of a Trans* against another is a bit odd, because often we end up labelling people that have very few similarities just for ease of mind and ‘to make it easy’.

From my personal experiences, most of the people that I have spoken to about their sex, expression, gender and orientation are often actually quite reluctant to give themselves a label, because they are far more free thinking than that, and it is frankly quite ignorant to try and label the workings of every independent brain into narrow schools of thought.

I think the result of the above paragraph, more often that not, seems to be where I have witnessed the root of the hostility stem- as people are tired of one word meaning one thing and then meaning a completely different thing in the eyes of another. I understand people like to feel like they are a part of something and the many other thousand reasons that an umbrella term is good, but similarly to the suffrage movement, it appears to push just as many people away from the term, regardless of its good intentions as a whole.

I suppose I would urge everyone to comprehend that not everyone’s brain works like yours does, and so we are all going to have conflicting views. You may just think of someone as an idiot for their genuine belief that their changing gender is important:- but to them it could be the most important thing in the world. And, I would hope, if a close friend or relative spoke to you about the most important thing in the world to them, you would listen, acknowledge and treasure their views whether you agreed with them or not. Being nice is much easier than being horrible.

In basic terms, stop being toxic just for the sake of it. You may not agree with what Maya has to say, and will probably leave with a bitter taste in your mouth, because we love to hate in the human race- but that doesn’t mean you have to discriminate anyone, it's simply undeserved.

Unfortunately I do not have much time to continue this response much further, but I thought it was worth slotting in nevertheless, hopefully it may help some people to engage brain before opening up the flood gates!
Last edited by Bless; Jan 18, 2020 at 04:24 AM.
[21:55] Icky: How the fuck can i make witty lines about blossoms without going full weeb
Tbh Bless, you're gonna have to do more than just scan through a few responses to determine if the hostility against Maya is undeserved. These people aren't being toxic for the sake of it. They're completely fed up with the way Maya's been arguing with them (that is, Maya's been calling everyone transphobic for every little disagreement). This has been a long, long, long discussion and there's been several people making good points against Maya's arguments, but not once has Maya conceded a point. It's Maya's way or the highway. Maya claims that their study, and lived experience of trans issues, makes them the ultimate authority on this topic, so they can't possibly be wrong. To that end, if you disagree with some particular points Maya's made, you get labelled as an ignorant transphobe (even if your disagreements are (what many would perceive as) completely reasonable).

So I don't think it's fair, given that you haven't even read the thread (and I know, it's a big task, it would take several hours if you read it thoroughly) for you to come in and claim the hostility against Maya is undeserved. Maya calls everyone here a transphobe and has been totally unwilling to consider any alternative views. It's in response to this accusatory pigheadedness that people have become fed up.
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As an aside, I agree with your point about the term 'trans' being too broad and encompassing. If you read the OP, you'll see that Maya insists on the term trans being used to include a large group of people;
Originally Posted by Maya
being transgender just means not necessarily strictly identifying with your gender assigned at birth. I say “gender assigned at birth” and not “biological gender” because a lot of people are much more biologically similar to the opposite sex after hormones or surgery. Anyone who is not transgender is cisgender. One shouldn’t use the term “transsexual” because it assumes that the person is intending to physically transition in some way, and that’s not always the case. It’s safe to use either “trans” or “transgender” (as adjectives, NOT nouns). Those who are non-binary (don’t associate fully with either male or female) are also trans. I am non-binary (enby or nb for short) myself.

Maya later goes on to say that if you're not attracted to trans people, then you are transphobic.
Originally Posted by Maya
Saying you are “not attracted to trans people” is transphobic.

This has been where much of the opposition against Maya has come from. You have to be attracted to trans people to not be transphobic. I'll let you determine whether you think that's right on your own but... Aside from general dubiousness of that, Maya's definition for trans includes transexuals folk (as you can see in the quote above). If you don't want to have sex with a transexual person, in Maya's book, you're transphobic. Maya has since refused to relent on this point. Maya has argued that they mean that if you're not attracted to trans people as a /whole/ you're transphobic, but you can't separate the parts from the whole. If I'm not attracted to transexual people, I can't be attracted to trans people as a whole (it would be erroneous for me to claim such a thing) - Meaning I must be transphobic. Maya does not accept this. They could amend their original statement (make their definition of trans less broad) or accept that they're plain wrong, but no, they just continue to argue and argue.

This is not a charitable discussion, where there's give and take. As I said earlier, it's Maya's way or the (transphobic) highway. That's why people have become hostile. Maya''s a stubborn child.
Last edited by Ele; Jan 18, 2020 at 05:24 AM.
and the bits and pieces still unfold
Krong: "What if you go to heaven but hampa said: 'Not connected'"
~Ex Help Squad and ToriAgent
I'll defend Maya a little bit, if you disagree with Maya's points, you disagree with Maya's life choices, naturally Maya takes offense to this. Maya has already taken pills and drugs and undergone surgeries to correct their gender and if their decision is wrong well then that means they wasted their life on this. Nobody wants to have their life be wasted so Maya attacks anyone that says Trans people and Maya's choices are wrong as a method of defending their choices. Please keep that in mind when you insult every decision they've ever made.
Click the link...do eet.
I've made that point elsewhere (either earlier in this thread or on Wibbles) - That Maya's identity is literally tied into this topic we're discussing (so that's why they simply 'mustn't' be wrong). It's identity politics, so whaddaya expect.

To which I recall Maya responding "No, it's not tied into my identity, you're all just transphobes, NYAHHH'. So yeah, Maya seems to disagree. Shocker.
Originally Posted by Ele View Post
Detailed explanation of the context of the thread



My apologies, I guess I didn’t set up shop properly and ignored prefacing my text with my objectives which is a fatal error.

I know I reference Maya once in my text, but in reality I was speaking more on the topic of all trans* and their views. From my scanning, the discussion had seem to become a volley of insults being thrown back and forth with no real achievable objective, but maybe context would have explained the deterioration.

I essentially just saw people going for the throat of anyone under the LGBTQAI+ banner just for the sake of not conforming and felt the urgency to act without context- because often, such hostility comes massively unwarranted, and pure hatred carries very little defence!

I’ll have a read of the full thread as and when I get a moment.
Last edited by Bless; Jan 18, 2020 at 08:55 AM.
[21:55] Icky: How the fuck can i make witty lines about blossoms without going full weeb
You will have a better time in life if you have something more to your personality than just being trans. It seems that there is nothing more than that when it comes to you, I'm trans, that's it. No other redeemable or character-defining traits, you being trans is the only thing you have going for you. Imagine if the only thing I had going for me was telling strangers how proud I am of wanting to have sex with women. That would sound like a pretty sad life.

On that note, I doubt there is a single real transphobe in this thread. Everyone hates you not because you are trans, but because you are a vapid, spiteful cunt. You are giving trans people a bad name.
Originally Posted by hipotibor View Post
You will have a better time in life if you have something more to your personality than just being trans. It seems that there is nothing more than that when it comes to you, I'm trans, that's it. No other redeemable or character-defining traits, you being trans is the only thing you have going for you. Imagine if the only thing I had going for me was telling strangers how proud I am of wanting to have sex with women. That would sound like a pretty sad life.

On that note, I doubt there is a single real transphobe in this thread. Everyone hates you not because you are trans, but because you are a vapid, spiteful cunt. You are giving trans people a bad name.

There's one more part of their identity; posting pictures of themselves getting fucked in the ass on wibbles under the banner of "sex-positivity", though it seems much more like a need for attention. Generally when people seek validation from outside sources it's because they can't validate themselves from within.


It's worth noting the culture of entitled-sensitivity - where i make my flaw, sensitivity, your problem. Many americans operate in this mode - 'how dare you say that to me? I'm special and deserve special treatment!'


A trait of narcissists, who must protect their ego as if it's their life force, is to treat any criticism as an attack. This behavior is developed from anxiety to protect a lack of self worth and validation. Often these kinds of people will put down others in order to raise their own value. Unfortunately for that tactic if a consumer sees a basket of rotten apples they won't pick the least rotten, they'll try again next week.


If I can find validation from within, I don't give two fucks what other people say about me.
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Originally Posted by Maya View Post
trans people who have bodies just like the ones you're attracted to.

No, they absolutely do not. An inside out peen does not a a vagina make, claiming otherwise is peak denial when there is a ton of information online about how different trans vaginas are from real ones.

This is all about preference and not about sexuality.

This is the only prescient thing you've said, unfortunately you think you get to define preference and sexuality because you are a narcissist with no sense of self esteem.
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Originally Posted by Maya View Post
Having been in relationships with trans people or being friends with trans people does indicate that you've removed your subconscious transphobia entirely. There's also this idea... "not like those other trannies" that some trans people unfortunately subscribe to. They try to appeal to cis people by ignoring all the shitty things which are said about trans people. It's almost a form of self harm and certainly an easy way to fit in with cis people. The rest of us will fight for normalcy and acceptance knowing that we may be hated by some cis people for it.

The hypocrisy never ends. Deciding the person I dated must be an exception to the rule you assert, moments earlier, saying that almost all trans people are wonderful. You might be the most irredeemably hypocritical fool on this forum and that's saying a lot! Like I mean, have you met the people here? And you're the most despised among these deplorable shit bags? Lmao.
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You also think you can lecture British people about British politics! Haha Haha, peak American entitlement, are you absolutely sure that you're not a cis white Male baby boomer? You certainly act just like a middle aged white male bigot. No wonder lots of lesbians don't like trans people Haha, you're acting like a douche bag frat bro xD "oh you don't wanna fuck me?? Well you must be a 'nasty woman'[bigot]"
Last edited by DrGonz; Jan 19, 2020 at 02:35 PM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
GrampaGonz

just like daddy. Thanks Tasa.... dogeater
Wow these replies are just malicous and offensive for the most part. I'm gonna finally close the thread.

Expect another thread at some point in the next month which explains gender and sexuality in heavy detail. I may also make one about tolerance, sensitivity, activism, free speech, and libertarianism.
<Hush> the beat feature sounds like the main event at a circle jerk festival