Toribash
Original Post
I think it's about time to adress toxicity
I think it's time that we address movements and political propaganda nonsense unbiased. I think our current system to monitor HOW things are said and done vs WHAT things are said and done is very very weak and to most staff, it doesn't even seem to matter. I want to work on a revvamp of how things should be handled (and not handled) in the community. I think have a clear guideline will be better since obviously, the vast majority of what the community thinks isn't the main interest for our current staff team.


Thoughts?
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
So current relevant global rules are;
Originally Posted by Global Rules
- Harassment

Harassing (by insulting, name-calling, slurs, bandwagoning, flaming, trolling, and so on) other members of the game for any reason is not allowed. We wish to maintain a friendly environment, and any flaming or harassment may result in a ban. This includes any homophobic or racial slurs in any public space in the community
"Public space" is defined as:
  • Game - Any room that is not protected by a password.
  • Forum - The entire forum with the exception of Wibbles and clan PRIVATE boards.
If it's brought to moderator's attention and found that your language disrupts the integrity of the environment we're setting; warnings, infractions, or bans will take place. Try to solve issues yourself if you can. We can't possibly be there for every single instance. Asking to politely stop is a start.
- Pornography/Gore/Warez etc.

Pornography/gore/warez etc. are not allowed anywhere at any time for any reason within the Toribash community. Any content of this type in any form will result in a severe ban. This includes linking, requesting, or mentioning such content, this community is not the place for it.

To get the ball rolling, if you could rewrite these rules, how you rewrite them?
------------
One thing I wanna point out is that the rule relating to pornography has been outdated for a while. Pornography is allowed in Wibbles and was allowed in other forums before that (OLDA, anyone?). OLDA was at least password protected (and somewhat vetted), but Wibbles is open to any kid that has the TC for it. Any kid can open up Wibbles and see Maya's gaping asshole, or any number of other NSFW tagged threads that have porn in it. In any case, if we're happy with how things are currently, one thing to instantly rewrite would be to allow pornography in 'private' spaces.
Last edited by Ele; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:48 PM.
Originally Posted by Greg View Post
obviously, the vast majority of what the community thinks isn't the main interest for our current staff team.

You mark this as obvious but I fail to understand what you're talking about. Though, me being oblivious would make sense I guess if we assume your statement to be true.


Do you have any specific examples/can you elaborate? Very vague blanket statements that almost amount to "staff bad" aren't very useful. This isn't to say "staff bad" is inherently or objectively wrong, just that it leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

Need help? PM me!
إد هو العاهرة

current




If it's brought to moderator's attention and found that your language disrupts the integrity of the environment we're setting; warnings, infractions, or bans will take place. Try to solve issues yourself if you can. We can't possibly be there for every single instance. Asking to politely stop is a start.

Language to "actions disrupt". Especially considering the amount of faith and trust already bestowed upon the staff team, that should be an easy change.


Harassing (by insulting, name-calling, slurs, bandwagoning, flaming, trolling, and so on) other members of the game for any reason is not allowed. We wish to maintain a friendly environment, and any flaming or harassment may result in a ban. This includes any homophobic or racial slurs in any public space in the community

I don't believe a whole community should be required to not "bandwagon" on something. That prevents honest protest. As staff should be trusted in handling such situations subjectivity, I still feel like the emphasis needs to be changed as such.


If anything, these are the rules that should be applied especially to wibbles access if not the entire forum instead of the super objective, "but it's subjective" crap posted.


You mark this as obvious but I fail to understand what you're talking about. Though, me being oblivious would make sense I guess if we assume your statement to be true.


Do you have any specific examples/can you elaborate? Very vague blanket statements that almost amount to "staff bad" aren't very useful. This isn't to say "staff bad" is inherently or objectively wrong, just that it leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

Well, a few examples from wibbles comes to mind... And how about that new rule everyone hated instantly? But it's obvious that bias from staff, even though not super excessive, is rather uncontrolled. If the matter could actually be as dictated and subjective as they say, it would be much much easier to revvamp the rules to human nature instead of deciding when staff should "tie their hands" on making decisions or not. It's just not natural.
-----
tldr: make the community happy and advocate change the right way. A lot of us are kinda just more and more pissed off.
Last edited by Greg; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:55 PM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
@Divine - Here's some examples

More than 80% of people wanted Wibbles gone after the rule revamp there.



Another example, this thread in Suggestions about the horrid handling of the market has been COMPLETELY IGNORED by the relevant staff since SEPTEMBER of last year, despite constant bumping by people demanding a response.

It's pretty obvious staff are gonna do as staff does. Staff knows what's best for the community. Mommy knows best...
-------------------------------------
@Greg - I reckon those are fair changes that make sense. Change 'language' to 'actions', and remove 'bandwagoning' from the rule. Anything else?

I think they ought to define what constitutes 'harassment'. Harassment is all about frequency, right? If someone repeatedly says stupid shit, (not naming names) and you repeatedly call them on saying stupid shit, is that harassment? I'd call it constant, genuine disagreement.

Also
Originally Posted by Global Rules
We wish to maintain a friendly environment, and any flaming or harassment may result in a ban.

So, as a part of the harassment rule (for some reason) flaming is outright banned?

Surely that should be a separate rule. If flaming is banned then flaming is banned. If flaming is banned only when done repetitively, (constituting harassment), then delete flaming from the quoted text above, as it's already covered at the beginning of the harassment rule;
"Harassing (by insulting, name-calling, slurs, bandwagoning, flaming, trolling, and so on)"

If flaming (not as a part of harassment) is banned, then they also need to define flaming. Honestly, I think the addition of flaming to these rules is a bit redundant anyways.
--------------------
My version of the global rules (text editor is fucked so can't make it pretty);

-Harassment
Harassment is defined as repetitive and malicious targeted abuse (through insulting, name-calling, trolling and so on). We wish to maintain a friendly environment, so harassment may result in a ban. There is currently also a standing ban on the malicious usage of any homophobic or racial slurs in any public space in the community.
"Public space" is defined as:
  • Game - Any room that is not protected by a password.
  • Forum - The entire forum with the exception of Wibbles and clan PRIVATE boards.
If it's brought to moderator's attention and found that your actions disrupt the integrity of the environment we're setting; warnings, infractions, or bans will take place. Try to solve issues yourself if you can. We can't possibly be there for every single instance. Asking someone politely to stop is a start.
-Pornography/Gore/Warez etc.
Pornography/gore/warez etc. are not allowed in public spaces at any time for any reason within the Toribash community. Any content of this type in any form will result in a severe ban. This includes linking, requesting, or mentioning such content, this community is not the place for it.
Last edited by Ele; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:39 PM.
I don't really have much to contribute to this discussion, but changing "homophobic" to "queerphobic" and maybe adding "anti-cultural" or "anti-religious" would be kinda nice.

Also the bandwagoning bit is mentioned in the context of harassment - harassment through bandwagoning. In this context, it makes perfect sense to have it listed there.
Last edited by Maya; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:02 PM.
<Hush> the beat feature sounds like the main event at a circle jerk festival
I think it was really cool of Divine to go through their work and pull the numbers for us. I appreciated it and it went a long way to reassure me. That said, there were immediately a couple people who said they got banned under that ruleset, and I was thinking like "well, they've never acted toxic around me, but they do duel??". Idk, maybe people just act nicer around me. Gosh, aren't I lucky! that almost the entire playerbase doesn't find me irritating.

Anywho. Completely unrelated...

Queerphobia isn't a word yet, but it should be; homophobia is an insufficient definition.
Anti-culturalism isn't a word, but that definition is 100% covered by the word racism.
Racism doesn't necessarily refer to skin colour, as the definitions of race and ethnicity include shared culture, and can have nothing to do with skin. It's important to bear that in mind, because skin colour is often referenced by racists to their defense - it's a false defense. For instance English racism towards... every other white culture, but typically towards Polish people.
It's also important to remember when sjw's are making up words because they think that it makes them more enlightened/progressive, when in fact it highlights their ignorance of bigotry.

Anti-religiousness is to oppose religious institutions - which in itself isn't analogous to bigotry, in fact a great many excellent progressives are anti-religious. While it would be extremely easy for me to only reference what I said about racism, it does apply here, it's important to note that you are referring to religious intolerance - that is to persecute a group for their religious beliefs/practices (racism).

There, now you know. I have explained it to you. You are welcome.
Last edited by DrGonz; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:49 PM. Reason: forum new line bug
GrampaGonz

just like daddy. Thanks Tasa.... dogeater
Originally Posted by DrGonz View Post
Anti-culturalism isn't a word, but that definition is 100% covered by the word racism.

I mentioned it because it's inclusive of antisemitism. Since Judaism is kind of like a... culture/religion/race conglomerate, anti-cultural actually kinda applies here. Some people don't see it as a race, so anti-cultural covers some bases. It could very well be replaced with antisemitism but I don't know enough to say that there aren't other similar religions.
Originally Posted by DrGonz View Post
Anti-religiousness is to oppose religious institutions - which in itself isn't analogous to bigotry, in fact a great many excellent progressives are anti-religious. While it would be extremely easy for me to only reference what I said about racism, it does apply here, it's important to note that you are referring to religious intolerance - that is to persecute a group for their religious beliefs/practices (racism).

I didn't really know what phrase to use here, given the tense. You're right in that "anti-religious" is not the most accurate phrase to use, but "religion intolerant" still feels vague. I don't know the word/phrase appropriate there honestly
<Hush> the beat feature sounds like the main event at a circle jerk festival
Originally Posted by Greg View Post
Language to "actions disrupt". Especially considering the amount of faith and trust already bestowed upon the staff team, that should be an easy change.

Why should they do this?

Originally Posted by Greg View Post
I don't believe a whole community should be required to not "bandwagon" on something. That prevents honest protest. As staff should be trusted in handling such situations subjectivity, I still feel like the emphasis needs to be changed as such.

What you just said is contradictory. It's not "bandwagoning" if its an honest protest.

Originally Posted by Greg View Post
If anything, these are the rules that should be applied especially to wibbles access if not the entire forum instead of the super objective, "but it's subjective" crap posted.


Again, whats the difference?

Originally Posted by Greg View Post
Well, a few examples from wibbles comes to mind... And how about that new rule everyone hated instantly?



What examples? What new rule?
Originally Posted by Maya View Post
Also the bandwagoning bit is mentioned in the context of harassment - harassment through bandwagoning. In this context, it makes perfect sense to have it listed there.

>piss everyone off with your stupidity
>get hate by everyone
>"noooooo you can't do that stop bandwagoning it's against the rules"


lmao


On the topic of racism/antisemitism that Maya and Greg brought up. You are making it sound that being racist is inherently bad. Are you telling me that I am not supposed to be remotely negative towards the people whose religion literally teaches them that my life(the life of a non-believer/goyim) is worth as much as stray dog's? Surely, since both of you are not racist, you will have no problem walking down dark alleys at night in Detroit or South Africa, right?


Human beings have an innate group preference for their own kind. This is also the reason why the majority of show business, media, banking and big corporations are owned and operated at a high level by jews. It is like that because they prefer to let in only their own kind in those circles, and there is nothing wrong with that, that's how the human mind operates. But by your logic this would make jews racist towards every other race/ethnicity, am I wrong?


Relating to the forums, I will agree that use of racial slurs should be kept off the public and only in closed off spaces such as wibbles and clan boards since it gives the brand an image which is not mainstream friendly. If you don't like that type of language, don't visit those threads/boards.


On another note, oblivious people such as yourself(Maya and Greg) shouldn't have a say in what the rules are since you have no idea what you are talking about and you are doing all of this for internet social justice points while riding your high horse of hypocrisy. Unironically, Ele should be given admin and the highest forum power/authority so he can keep the cattle in check.