Muay Thai Championship Series 2020
Original Post
Stop randomly changing prices of items PLS
It rlly bothers me that whoever is in charge of priceing does a shitty job.
Sometimes items dont have a price and the suddently they are 5k on shop.
Sometimes items like jiyu dreads were 60k then they get to be like 15k in shop.
Exclussibe event items get put in shop sometimes. Not cool.
Pls stop doing this kind of bullshit and just set a price that sticks with the item forever!
I dislike this randomness in priceing. Just make up you mind and roll with it. Do discounts but don't change prices like that.

Its not fair for buyers or for sellers.
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Think about it like this, maybe they lowered the prices on these items because maybe toribash is going through a recession as well?
Originally Posted by SmallBowl View Post
Im actually pretty sure the sales are automated - it's not someone choosing "I'll put this item at this price today" although I think the algorithm would make a lot more sense if the price was set to 90% of the lowest market (not forum) price or something rather than the seemingly random pricing that we get.

That way it would give a good deal without tanking the value of every item sold

This thread isn't about that.
Originally Posted by Ele View Post
It's been almost 4 months and there's been zero response to this from any people in the know. Even if you disagree, voice your disagreement (along with reasons why). Don't just stay silent.

Taking way too long for any staff to respond or come up with a solution, so I will paste this here as an ex-item forger for 3 years.

I made sure to use many examples as to how TC/ST worth and the sales system should be reworked. This ignores items worth in USD since TC worth per $ is variable and cannot be compared to items priced in fixed TC/ST.
But before you continue reading please remember; this is written from my own perspective, and I am in no way an expert in marketing, nor am I a current staff member; so this is not an “official” response, but rather the potential fix that came in mind.

Part 1
How the Torishop Sales Affecting the Market.

Originally Posted by iTemp View Post
Think about it like this, maybe they lowered the prices on these items because maybe toribash is going through a recession as well?

This was never the main concern, as Toribash always had a "fixed" portion of the playerbase that would not leave as they're invested in one or more aspects of the game, whether economical or martial arts. But this also affects those newcomers who might want to customize their Tori's.

Let's look at the times the sales are seen good "on paper".

) Colors & re-released 3D item are XX% off the original price.

You may have noticed that the spot for the sales on Torishop do not show all items, but rather one that may be of your peak interest (e.g. a 3d item).

This is done to encourage players to play the game more to farm TC off tourneys and (potential) betting servers to get colored and special 3D items.

For instance, Hunter's Cord is on sale for 25% off its' original price from 20k/4 ST to 15k/3 ST as of writing this post, but when you click on the price it also shows some Hot Pink items are also on sale, but are not visible since you wouldn't be as interested.

Now, to tell you the difference, the Hot Pink pack is 18 ST instead of 30ST - that's 40% off, and still was not shown since you would shrug it off as another colored pack for more ST...

Another example of how this type of sale affects the market outside of unique 3D items is seeing those colored items (can be argued that the Shop board would be better, but this is an example.) Hot pink force has been going for 13-14k on the market for some time now, but since the sale it dropped to near 10k (34-39% the original price) and can reduce further due to this.

Not many are buying those despite the price reduction, and the stock will only increase as demand lowers. Only after the sales are over is when these prices can stabilize, but the scar of the price reduction will stick and reduce it by more than 5% of the original price.

) A new/event/seasonal/special item is re-released and is placed on sale as a "hey, this "special" item that was once priced at XXXXX is XX% off for XX hours. Buy it now at a discounted price!".

Originally Posted by Darkshot1 View Post
...when it comes to putting limited time/event items on the shop ruins it for the people who worked hard to get them..

Almost every item release that has been announced lately (for the last three years) is following this scenario. Items that are supposed to be special, seasonal, one-time event and so on are later re-released for much less than what it was originally worth to the owners.

This hurts many unique items be it 3D or colors, and many people mentioned items that have fallen victim to this in this thread.

Outside of making it easier to obtain items that were unobtainable for a while, I don't see a need for the sale system. It should be either revised or removed overall, since its' benefits is overshadowed by its' usage on selected items that were either unique or rare, sacrificing quantity over economic health.

It MIGHT have been useful back then, but nowadays TC and ST are so easily obtainable, that the idea of slashing off original prices is doing more harm than good.

Part 2
The Real Worth of ST/TC Fully Depend on the Staff's Current Pricing Method (Implying it Exists).
Everyone Is Going Through Changes but the World Still Carries On.

Originally Posted by SmallBowl View Post
Im actually pretty sure the sales are automated - it's not someone choosing "I'll put this item at this price today" although I think the algorithm would make a lot more sense if the price was set to 90% of the lowest market (not forum) price or something rather than the seemingly random pricing that we get...

I'll just say it isn't 100% automated, nor will it be based on algorithm since that is asking too much from an indie studio with barely any site devs, but I won't say much more not to leak any unnecessary information.
Originally Posted by l0lix View Post
...Now, it isn't fair in some point for buyers and sellers, that's ok, but in some cases it helps to control the market prices, if the ítem isn't worth a lot and it need a real price…

I agree, the price changes are ludicrous after release, and can mean the difference between allowing an item to be a bit more common and killing a rare item’s value entirely.

This can be attributed to the fact that there isn't a clear "baseline" for the price range.
Want proof? look at some items from the Torishop:-

Armblades, Flipflops and Flippers as well as Indian headdress, hidden blade and kitsune mask are each for 20K/7 ST.
Cigar, Mini pond, Steampunk goggles, is for 20K/4 ST.
Straw Hat is 20k/5 ST.
Demon wings [Halloween] are 50K/7 ST.
Love potion [Valentine] is 50K/6 ST.

Do you notice that despite sharing the same payment method, the worth of the item is all over the place? With this logic you can technically trade a Demon Wing (Halloween seasonal, 7 ST) for a Hidden Blade (Common, 7 ST), when they are not in the same category whatsoever.
Here's a better example with more items:-

Ruined hat, Bowler’s hat, Sword in the stone 25K/8 ST.
Pirate belt, Steampunk Hammer, Steampunk hat, UFO 40K/8 ST.
Obsidian Scythe, Shattered head, Head hunter's strip, Spear gallery 50K/8 ST.
Bowler’s hat (8 ST) worth as much as Obsidian scythe (8 ST) but in TC it’s worth half as much (25k hat, 50k scythe)?

Why keep ST as a "special" currency from events when its' worth is this variable? Fix your base pricing first THEN find a way to fix the sales system.

Torishop prices don’t make sense whatsoever since they are manually inserted and are not automatically priced according to a system. Even if this system changes, all prices should be re-touched accordingly (and I know, it’s so many 3D items that are around, but it’s better than literally breaking the market.)

Part 3
Stable Table for Pricing.

Such price differences can be easily avoided with a simple hierarchy system, such as using the tier-like pricing we got on packs.
Here is a system I whipped up within a minute and is much better and organized than these random ST/TC prices we currently have;


5K/1 ST for "Beginner"; things that are simple and should be popular [e.g. Sign. Eyepatch. #Swag cap, Deal with it…]

10K/2 ST for "Intermediate"; more detailed objects, similar size. [e.g. Kunai holster, Hidden blade]

20K/4 ST for "Pro"; Bigger items with much more details. Levels introduced here. [e.g. Kitsune mask, Indian headdress, Bo staff, Katana]

50k/10 ST for “Oldschool” Items that stand out as medium in size. Replacement for bodyparts or joints start here [e.g.Steampunk hammer, Pirate hook, Jetpack]

100K/20 ST for "Godlike”; Rarer items that should be limited but would be re-introduced again [e.g. Sharko the Shark, Anime hair]

200K/40 ST for "Cosmic"; Items that are most detailed and should be rare [e.g. Scythe, Colossal sword]

500K/100ST for “Legendary”; priceless items that were either won in events like CL or Championship that are re-released for the public. [e.g. Banner, fl0wBot]

Each 3D set/pack with multiple items will be assigned a tier. The pricing depends on the amount of items there are in the set to keep a fixed price
e.g. a set with four 3D items under "beginner" would cost 5K/1ST x 4 = 20K/4 ST, whereas a set with four 3D items under "godlike" would be 100K/20ST x 4 = 400K/80 ST.

You get the picture; in this hypothetical pricing system, prices can be referred to when releasing any new item. It will not cause huge price swings when re-releasing any old seasonal and event items, and the players as well as marketers will know the worth of the item upon release according to its’ tier.

Part 4
Communicate Communicate Now, Learn to Use Your Words so We Can Communicate!

Of course, such system would be decent on paper, but to implement it is another story. It would take coordination from both the staff team and the community and it would require feedback as to how prices would be changed with updates. (which, judging by this thread, is near non-existent since more than 7 months has passed by)

I was making a point about how Item Forgers are busy creating models an textures, and how it is a voluntary position so you should not expect 100% activity rate as they are not being paid in $ for creating 3D models and items (besides for Goat), buuuuut......Since they have been dead for many months with no new purchasable items for Toribash this year (That is if I didn't miss any. Only new event items I have seen are the Clan Banner for Toricombat, but that's already a thing from Clan League, and the Romantic Rose for Valentine which I'm sure will be recycled and released this year or next valentine like the other valentine items. Not going to mention April Fools "pack" for obvious gambling reasons.) let alone the previous years, then one can only hope the staff's efforts on Toribash Next will make up for the gaps and issues marked by the community. Maybe it would grow enough so more people who are willing to volunteer become Item Forgers, and can create items for the game more regularly like how it was between 2016-2018...unrealistically optimistic here though.

Feel free to reply/state what you think of this idea, or note anything, and whenever I am able to I'll reply back. Thought this long post doesn't warrant a new thread since it's a follow-up response to this thread.
Originally Posted by Nokia View Post
Big post

The fact that TC is easily obtainable is a good reason for the shop to have discounted prices for TC sinking, but it's overshadowed by how easy ST can be earned. The dilemma comes with how to help new people customize their toris with more items even though there are no complaints to be heard from that side, so it's a one sided rush to put more stuff for easy access, and with few forgers the only solution they can find is the re-release.
When newbies see the price of, for example, a 512x512 body, they settle for less and aim for 128x128 instead, that's what happens with 3D items and they choose to wear cheap alternatives that suits them. But what happens when you get TC and aim for better items? You can barely get variety. Items worth is the result of how good looking and how rare they are, specially the latter, when everyone wants to be unique. So, with every re-released item, the economy gets hurt, and it's not like the price change back when new textures released, this is constant and unjustified.

I don't know the reason why they changed from「Many hard to earn old ST = Good item」to「Few ST = Good untradeable item」and then too quickly to 「Few ST = Good item」and lastly combining the two currencies for almost every item. It went far from unnecessary, the reason for ST just goes away, it's just USD bundles which are annoying in every game.

You make the point of a forger being not paid in usd as it's a voluntary job, but that doesn't mean that if there are fewer forgers item releases should be consistent (new or re-releases). With the current state of the game, where items may even crash the game, I would ask for fewer items.

The solution is rather simple:
If it's a new item, the release for whatever price is ok, if it's not new, don't re-release.
And about ST, there's no going back.

There should be some kind of squad that regulates market or something, but with knowledge in economics.
10 months, no staff response to concerns raised in thread.

3 sets of Wibbles rules tho - Priorites huh
Yes, we made some wrong decision regarding pricing, but the sales are always going to continue regardless (we have our reasons)

On a more serious note, there's been no response because there isn't going to be any specific action taken.

We will re-release items, adjust their prices or do anything else with the shop as we see fit. Shop sales will keep happening, and some items will keep being made available again or removed from shop depending on their popularity. Just because some item got extremely overpriced in market due to it being unpopular when it was originally in the shop and thus getting only 4 of its copies sold doesn't we'll try to adapt to whatever price it still goes for in market when returning it to shop. Likewise, if some item got released at a specific price years ago, it doesn't mean that same price will stay forever - if we think the price should be changed, we may do that.

The only category of items that we don't usually touch are event items which were supposed to be only owned by event winners/participants. They might get used again for something, but I don't remember us doing that in past years (unless it was explicitly stated that those items won't be exclusive to event winners, e.g. Superior color).

If you'd like to work on new items or help with shop regulartion so we could release new stuff more often and not have to re-release old items, both Item Forgers and Market Squad are always recruiting and would be happy to get some new people. There were some good points regarding ST/TC pricing inconsistencies made here, if you have ideas on a generic rate to stick to I'll be happy to look into that.
Yes, it is resonable that you change item prices according to what you see fit, i have bean through 2 whole market overhauls while marketing and i i understand why.

But It is that sometimes its just to random on single items.
Also, try pricing items from the start. There are items that have no price and suddently they are like 5k. Some items were priced good (jyiu drrads were 60k- popular item everyone was buying at that price - for eample) and lowered now just like that.
Maybe u see problems where there are no problems.

What i was trying to say is to be more consistent. Maybe there is no actual need to change prices for old items. Maybe you could do that with more items on daily sale from time to time. That lowers the market value of the item wo tweaking the shop value and everybody is happy. People hunt for deals on items they want and other people dont get frustrated. Instead it just seems that there is a monkey slamming a keyboard.
A system with better daily/weekly discounts would fit better imo, and leave item pricing alone. Just my two cents.

Haha, i just read my initial post and it is bassicaly the same lol ) just with more hate
Last edited by Insanity; 10 Hours Ago at 08:25 AM.
Pm me for deals