Ranking
View Poll Results: WHO HAS MORE AURA?
Shmevin
33 Votes / 54.10%
Diamond
28 Votes / 45.90%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll
View Poll Results

so he got 1 pumped then ran because he got third partied and needed time to medkit and pop minis, he then would crank 90’s but cock block himself with a wall, then get shot down taking fall damage
Type 1 if you are edging
HUH? | EL 4 LYFE
Originally Posted by Moonshake View Post
Actually, there's a few things worth discussing.

Let us remind ourselves that dueling in Toribash is gambling. This means that, in order to be successful at dueling in Toribash, you cannot be simply "good at the game", but you must apply gambling-specific techniques to maximize profit.
For instance, let's take a look at your bet/duel profit thread. You have a profit of ~37 million TC --- impressive! However, was this 37 million attained from consistently dueling top-level competition? I HIGHLY doubt it was. In fact, I suspect such a profit was accumulated from seeking favorable matchups against weaker yet arrogant players who aren't of any interest to people like Shmevin/iTemp/BOOST/etc. Moreover, whenever I see you play against tougher competition, it's in short bursts. Three matches in duelmode -> spectate.

Now, allow me to distinguish your comrade Kros. He has a profit of ~1.8 million: while you have ~4x as many duelmode games as he has, you also have around ~6 times the return that he has per duel. Is this because you're simply a better player? Maybe. However, I constantly see Kros playing against tough competition, and he often does so for hours at a time. Winning 1 million against the toughest competition is more impressive than winning 100 million against subpar competition and favorable matchups.

So, with that being said, Diamond won a lot in his time. But that time has passed. People have gotten better while he hasn't played, and when he has played (past his peak in 2016/2017), I haven't seen the most convincing results. For instance, the last documented example that I can find of Diamond playing against high level competition was in 2021's Clan League, where he went 2-5 against Shmevin in lenshu3ng in Alpha's match against Liquor. In the finals, he went 3-6. In 2019, when Alpha was knocked out by Obey in the semifinals, he went 3-7.

Diamond never competed in a WC again after his win in 2018. The one he won in 2019 had the smallest amount of competitors out of all the WCs (29): the one Shmevin won had 3x the amount of competitors in comparison (93). Shmevin has also competed in every WC event.

So, what am I trying to say? There's a difference between winning and being the greatest player. There's a difference between winning competitions and being the greatest competitor. To give a different example than Shmevin, I'll bring up Molotov5. If Cicada3301 somehow collected Molotov5's hundreds of alts from over the years, and ran it through the duelmode profit script, we might see a number that exceeds Shmevin's negative earnings. And yet, it seems to be commonly understood that Molotov5 is one of the elite duelers. How can this be? The answer is simple: Molotov5 is a gambling addict and only stops at extremities. Either he goes bankrupt after raising the stakes in a degenerate and reckless manner, or he wins SO much to the point where he realizes that he should call it a day (this is a rare occurrence because if you've won a lot, nothing seems like enough.) Molotov5 will duel all day without exaggeration --- until he goes bankrupt at the hands of a high-caliber player like iTemp or Kros --- and it doesn't always go their way.

Contrariwise, if Molotov5 dueled like Cicada3301, where he duels for short periods of time, being super disciplined about his bankroll and leaving after an early profit has been made, we'd be looking at millions upon millions earned in profit. But that doesn't happen, because Cicada3301 and Molotov5 want different things. Diamond and Shmevin want different things. This difference has to be made known in order to make an educated decision on who has the greater "aura".

TLR, 1) duel earnings reveal more about a player's actual approach to dueling than how good a player is at the game (Cicada3301 wants to believe duel earnings is the only thing that matters), 2) Shmevin has competed more often and against tougher competition for a longer period of time, 3) Diamond won't exhibit the same success against today's players, Shmevin has and continues to do so.

Well said (though superfluous, with these people it may be necessary) ! anyone that genuinely believes pure duel earnings is a large indicator of skill should be muzzled.
#ShmevinAuraDiamondNORA but anyway have you considered hopping on fin and/or dut !??!?!?!
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Last edited by masquerade; May 13, 2024 at 07:15 PM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
i definitely got a solid hardon whenever diamond joined the lobby i think that adds to his aura.

and aura was never about dueling as per mwah's own definition so if yall r words (hi maya) start comparing duel stats u already lost the debate.
#1 tabby glazer
tonite is haloween >.<
No one in the universe really cares about whose better in a dead arse game, also no human has any aura on this planet, i remember i once took part in a fierce battle, i was a mercenary for hire fighting against a strong alien race who was fighting for galaxy domination, i still remember till this day when their leader showed up, she killed 60% of our comrades in a flash by just using her aura, at that point i was just trying everything in my power to survive, i didn't stick around to find out what else she had in store whenever she was going to get serious or not, i jizzed my pants and ran off
Btw i vote for diamond cuz he has legendary status in this game unlike shmevin
Last edited by HumanMonkey; May 14, 2024 at 12:03 AM.
Diamond based on aura because his name alone induces a pavlovian response in the chat with mf's salivating like dogs whenever he joins a lobby. Reputation = Aura.

And if you were to base it off of pure technical ability, he wins as well, along with strategic foresight, and self-control. Call him a runner, but at the end of the day, you're either a winner or a loser. He understands the psychological game. And that it's an equally important battle.

Diamond in his prime years > everyone else. iTemp, Felnin, Shmevin are the only one's who even come within a ballpark of that, however, Shmevin win's on style/aesthetics/ & BALLS.
Last edited by Hikou; May 17, 2024 at 04:36 PM.
Originally Posted by HumanMonkey View Post
No one in the universe really cares about whose better in a dead arse game, also no human has any aura on this planet, i remember i once took part in a fierce battle, i was a mercenary for hire fighting against a strong alien race who was fighting for galaxy domination, i still remember till this day when their leader showed up, she killed 60% of our comrades in a flash by just using her aura, at that point i was just trying everything in my power to survive, i didn't stick around to find out what else she had in store whenever she was going to get serious or not, i jizzed my pants and ran off
Btw i vote for diamond cuz he has legendary status in this game unlike shmevin


get your head out of the goddamn gutter, protect yourself from the chemical trails. wear a mask, stay 7 feet away from potential chemical trail zombies, wear gloves and hazmat suit. the chemical trail zombies are coming for you....you must be vigilant
#1 tabby glazer
tonite is haloween >.<
Originally Posted by Moonshake View Post
Actually, there's a few things worth discussing.

Diamond never competed in a WC again after his win in 2018. The one he won in 2019 had the smallest amount of competitors out of all the WCs (29): the one Shmevin won had 3x the amount of competitors in comparison (93). Shmevin has also competed in every WC event.


Late reply, but:

I don't think this argument is valid. First of all, we need to understand the context behind the 2018 WC. The low pool of players is due to the nature of the tournament that only allows the highest ranked players over 3 seasons (Seasons 2-4). I'd personally argue that at that time, the players that were competing, were of higher quality. Back then, the world championship actually meant something. This championship in particular, was the first one since 2012, which elevates its prestige, causing the win to be much more desirable. The desire to win this championship naturally led to participants being more competitive, and trying harder to get the title.

You mentioned that Shmevin's 2022 run is more impressive due to there being 93 competitors. But just how good were the quality of most of the competitors that makes a larger number more impressive? My 2019 WC run had 127 competitors, does that make me a better World Champion than Shmevin? Even when looking at the 2022 WC bracket, iTemp had the much harder path to the finals. He had to face Jenson, deoxer, BOOST, and Fire. I'm not even sure if Shmevin would've even made the finals if he got iTemp's draw.


When I was actually playing back in 2017-2020, when I watch Diamond I was always in awe. When I watch Shmevin, sometimes I'm like "wtf is this dude doing". Now, this is just my probably outdated perspective. But in honesty, no player had the level of prestige and aura that Diamond had at his prime.
Last edited by Loona; May 26, 2024 at 06:38 AM.
Originally Posted by Moonshake View Post
For instance, the last documented example that I can find of Diamond playing against high level competition was in 2021's Clan League, where he went 2-5 against Shmevin in lenshu3ng in Alpha's match against Liquor. In the finals, he went 3-6. In 2019, when Alpha was knocked out by Obey in the semifinals, he went 3-4.



Are you really trying to compare them when one was dead for over 2-3 years and only played in clan league, while the other being one of the most active duelers at the time?

If I was able to have one wish, it would be to live closer to my one true love Fred, his beard tastes so nice.
He is also a far superior tk player.
LegGang