ToriCombat League
With a bit of delay it continues.
If you find any typos you can keep them.

I am getting to the more juicier parts about wushu now,oh boy.
As most of you know , wushu is ,with the victory system in toribash, not a mod which should be played competitively.By competitively in this case i mean
playing to absofuckinglutley wanting to win a match.Think about a 10 Million tc duel in wushu3.tbm without any form of dojo.


Oh wushu,
As you can already tell i used to love wushu and i still like it.Many other people did and still do ,too.Everyone of you is also aware that wushu
is not as popluar anymore then it was years ago and there are valid reason for this but also some real crazy shit went down.

Oh boy, where to begin.

Lets start with the fact that back then there was something like a "unspoken rule",
"a code of honor" or whatever you want to call it which said that you "never run away" from your opponent and "always come back"
to your opponent or at least try to, even or especially you have a pointlead.
If you did not come back or even ran away you would get flamed almost immediatley from a lot of people.This still happens today but much less so.
The matter of fact is that if you want to win ,that behaviour is totally detrimental for you when you have a pointlead.
And im am talking about winning in a VIDEOGAME, i am not talking about real life were you should show some restrain,not too much tho,lol.
You should use any means neccesarry to win in a fucking videogame ,IF you want to win.Think about a duel for 10 million tc or a match in clanleague,you really want to win there and
you should use the opportunities the game gives you,its not cheating,its just how the game works.
That being said,wushu and other strikingmods are WAY more enjoyable when people comeback to each other AND if you always comeback you
learn the toribash physics a lot more and faster,too.
Thats why i still advise to comeback and thankfully most people in CASUAL matches agree and do that,too.

Ok,with that out of the way ,lets continue.

Especially the prominent players of fl0w and RelaxAll were big advocates of the "fairplay" style in wuhsu and tried to push
it even in competetive play.Which was a mistake.
This behaviour got attetion of serveral people , mostly prominently from TheGod/culapou and from players from TGS , at that time
a clan which was formed/formed itself from a lot of duelers.
If you dont know culapou,he was one of the most notorious trolls of the toribashcommunity,very intelligent(like every good troll(google "forum toribash tori investigation"sometime btw to have a laugh)
but also an ass,lol,
and he saw that the fairplayrules(as i said in competetive play) were utter garbage and started to troll(aka pointing it out and making fun of it in this case)
the people who advocated this playstyle.
TGS,good duelers and very forumactive otherwise,who used memes(maybe the first and i guess only time to heavily use meme "warfare" in tb) also hopped on the train
to diss fl0w and RA and everyone else who advocated the "fairplay"style.Shit got personal for some people,not for me tho, i refused to to put any energy into this lost cause,i even told
my fellow fl0wpeople who tried to push the fairplaystyle that it was a mistake (in competetive play) but they wouldnt listen.
Some notable events in this time:
Culapou, a member of the godteam(best modcreators ever),more like a spokesperson tho,had a mod made:wushuepeen.tbm , a literal dickmod meant to mock the efforts of the fairplay advocates.
This whole ordeal lead to the creation of mushu.tbm and later boxshu_mushu.tbm,one of the most popluar mods nowadays,just to mock wushu.tbm.They even made an org,TeamMushu, to mock TeamWushu, the wushu org at that time.
It was advertised as "real wushu" and created a lot of traction after it was created.Mushu can be a fun mod btw, what i dislike the most about it is the fact that it CAN advocate a real lazy playstyle since a simple tap dms your opponet,
but i also guess thats why its so popluar because you can achieve a lot of mayhem easily , and yes ofcourse i know its also a duel mod and in a duel environment
you must use skills to win in it,but i also have to say that if i recall correctly boxshumushu as a duelmod started as a joke from within the duel community.
TGS won Clanleague this year, and i remember there was a BIG controversy because "someone" tried to disqualify TGS for "bad behaviour" in this clanleague.
If i recall correctly siku had to step in to get TGS unbanned from cl again since they did nothing wrong.THey just behaved "rudley" and played for the win
with no remorse,read as they ran in wushu3.tbm and stuff,which is not a reason by any means to ban them.
A LOT of shit was talked back then, i watched all this in awe and tried to be kept far away from it but as i was already in fl0wback then i remember joining some rooms
and getting flamed immediatly, i totally ignored it tho, best way to handle internetshittalk anyway.Still, it was really a new experience for me.

Think a moment about all the effort put into this,all the time who got sunk to mock a certain mod/certain people in a small online game.

Crazy?U bet.Noteworthy in this community?U bet too.

This whole story ,and i did not even write down everything in this wall of text was , for me , one of the craziest things i expereinced on the internet.
And not only for me , i guess, because TO THIS DAY some people still talk about it.(This happend somewhere in 2013 btw)

After this wushu was never used in another clanleague if i am not mistaken.
And , in my opinion, this was also the time wushu as amod reached its peak and started to dwindle in popluarity,it still was played for a long time tho and still is
and i am still baffeld by the fact that there is no official wushuroom anymore even tho a lot of people asked for it.

What can you learn from all this shit?Dont try to push "softrules" in a competetive videogame i guess and dont take yourself too serious,especially in a videogame,its
just not worth it.

But i still look back at that time with some respect to the people who tried to advocate fairplay in wushu, mainly because the mod is MUCH more enjoyable this way and in my opinion and i know in the opinion from a lot of other people one of the best mods in TB.
Just dont try it in a competetive environment and never be surprised or agitated when someone runs away from you.
Crazy? Hell yeah I bet.

Wow. Reading through this was fascinating. I went inactive spring '13 and I do remember some of this bubbling up, those hold all dueler power kick types (whom I have no issues with, all the same to me) would prod about the playstyle now and then, but I definitely left before the meat of that debacle.

Ho-ly shit that escalated.

Someone (maybe you Kane?) gave me a short explanation of box mushu when I came back, because I was confused as hell, that it was made to make fun of wushu.... but god damn that's wild.

Thanks for the story!

I don't see why they didn't just make a box wu mod, or why that isn't common now. I remember one with a real big dojo that was pretty fun. Well I think that was wushu? Long time ago.

But more importantly than mushu, the box. Bavaros has a wushu small sphere mod that's ostensibly a fast-paced cb trainer, but is a good example of why mid size box mods work.

If someone runs, yes that is a valid form of play, but a box brings the aggressor's tactics into play too. I can attempt to predict your movements (just like many competitive mods) to cut you off, catch you. Level playing field again. Compromise.

I actually make fun of mushu boxshu by running, on the few occasions I play it. Learned that one from Bav.

Oh yeah, and these days high dans don't know the acronym: cb. What a world, what a tori-world.
Last edited by DrGonz; May 4, 2019 at 02:25 AM.

just like daddy. Thanks Tasa.... dogeater


Imo, boxshu.tbm with 2k frames and the new winpointsystem is the way to go for wushu.It also has the added benefit that people are familiar with the box from boxshumushu.

If you can find the mod from Bavaros again tell me how its called pls,im interested in it,Bav made a lot of interesting mods.

And yes , as i always say, running is valid and its the game that has to change not the players.
Attached Thumbnails
Attached Files
serenity_nexus_fix.tbm (7.7 KB, 1 views)

just like daddy. Thanks Tasa.... dogeater
I could clarify and fix some of the historical points made, but I'm honestly flattered you mentioned me at all.

always enjoy your company Kane. And enjoyed the times we played a shit ton of wushu.
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*Just dropping by to read some juicy walls of text*
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Originally Posted by William View Post
ahah tell us ur perspective, why not!

Alright I'll give this a whirl.

At the beginning of Toribash, people played Judo, Aikido, and TK a metric ton. Aikido probably because it was the first mod two players who knew nothing about Toribash could play just by a simple clap and you're off to the races. But TK and Judo most likely because Toribash was advertised as this game of ultimate carnage and massive dismemberments, and people were bad. So the only way they were getting decaps were when the threshold was paper thin.

In that similar ideology, the first wushu was born. The engage distance was super small and it had judo sort of thresholds, meaning the entire emphasis was on openers. This is where players like Amok shined. The oldest of old school wushu type players, which were more or less judo players.

What happened next, in my opinion, was an incredibly popular position. Two people would launch at themselves like judo, there would be no conclusive winner (no DQ or DM), and maybe 250 frames of the two players being very close to each other, but they passed each other. And there's 250 frames to kill. What do they do now? The natural answer excitingly became try to launch back. But it was frustrating to learn how to do that and often there weren't enough frames for it to matter to this class of players because almost everyone at Toribash still sucks.

With an interest in this newfound situation, a trend started. The engagedistance would get slightly farther away, putting less emphasis on the judo level of openings, the thresholds would increase for less RNG explosions, and more match frames were added. This is the Wushu that spawned the two very different and polarizing ways to play: Style vs. Pragmatism. To put it into clan terms, RelaxAll and HUNG vs. Alpha. There would be private meetups to enjoy this game in rooms with amalgram names like ralphung or ralpha or whatever insinuating if you're a known wushu player come here. Some players like Shezcudio took pride in the creation of incredible openers that were impossible for newer players to copy and understand, some players loved to improvise, helicopters were all the rage, and players like TIcux and Odlov started jumping backwards for the first time which is seen as unintuitive. This is the KamiKo, Sahee, Odlov, type of hayday. I think most people agree KamiKo was the best player in wushu and maybe toribash at this point of time.

The first time these two ideologies are finally met at odds with each other are clan league, 2009. You have two figure heads that represent the exact opposite of how to play wushu, but both of which are fair play players - Odlov vs. Sahee. Sahee is known as the guy who is all about movement and improvisation, trying to flow by using as little joints as possible, an old school exciting nuanced RCarey if you will. Odlov is often held all, concise, disguising attacks, more or less knowing how to win. 2009 CL is played in lenshu3 only, and Alpha and RelaxAll meet each other in a de-facto clan league finals since they were both favorites. Alpha beats RelaxAll, and some people take that as a sign when RelaxAll's non-practical helicopter attacks are losing to very simple openers. As part of the result. RelaxAll's best players leave for Alpha or retire. Sheczucido, Maldiluna, etc. go from RelaxAll to Alpha, Sahee quits toribash, etc.

The trends go as they have been, Alpha loses a ton of activity, HUNG dies and some of its ashes despite missing SlipAnc, BDO, AMB, etc are revived in fl0w. Really one of the only active players left in wushu from Alpha is Odlov. Now in public servers, you always had tons of people getting into wushu from 5th dan and below who just had no idea what to do, so they'd do the same youtube type openers, most unmistakingly, the sweep kick. And I don't know what possessed Odlov to do this, but he started noob clapping. The funny thing is, he was getting massive streaks in public wushu doing this. Sort of turns a lot of heads with players, not knowing what the future of wushu would be if he could win without a real opener against these beautiful and intricate helicopter kicks. This starts moving people a bit into thinking "hey maybe wushu is sort of...broken?" but that idea subsides quickly with an explosion of different playstyles. The engage distance gets further again, the thresholds even larger, openers matter even less, it's all about the comebacks now. That's the glory that's the gold that's what is exciting, comebacks. With more matchframes even further, looking at you brushu, comebacks are happening and consistently and it's exciting. You have players who play for flow and style like Deprav, style and winning like Begotten, all out aggro like RCarey, defensive clapping like myself trying to imitate a now AFK Odlov, and unintuitive and hard to predict like Logic. This in many people's minds is the golden age of wushu. Team wushu becomes a thing, there are tier lists of different players, people actively wanting to get better, it's pretty massive.

Simultaneous to all of this is two very polarizing opposites when it comes to the state of "competitive" wushu. People start joining two camps - Wushu is all about fair play and is competitive, or wushu can't be competitive and is inherently broken. Most people are shades of grey, but the black and white of this argument are Snake vs. Culapou aka TheGod. Snake keeps pushing for more realism, improvization only without the use of any openers, comebacks no matter what, etc. and Culapou keeps looking for ways to break down the idea of these styles of mods.

Then comes a tryhard revolution. Prior to this day, Clan League was an event you tried to win with your own clan's talent. But after this clan league, clan's would intentionally manage their rosters in an interest of formulating teams designed to win the event as a metric of being the best clan. After this clan league you'd see wushu clans like Alpha add in TK players like BlueEvil and RelaxAll unfortunately adds FistofLife to aid their situation. In 2013, the last clan league to feature wushu exists. And many of the hardcore duelers, im talking snapkicking shoveling running away all that matters is money and winning duelers are interested in clan league for the first time. It just so happens that many of them all are actually cool friends who enjoy hanging out with each other for the most part, this is TGS imo (they might not agree). Just as an aside, they weren't going to be DQ'd because of bad manners, the controversy was they let a player not on their official roster at the time play two inconsequential games in a match. And something ironic starts to happen - when WINNING is what matters, the wushu clans don't do so hot. Fl0w and RelaxAll and even to some degree Alpha get destroyed in wushu by a bunch of non-wushu players. I want to say at one point TGS won like 4-0 against RelaxAll in wushu. Now of course, the seasoned wushu player veterans knew that the meta as entirely different, these guys were playing to secure an advantage and not let the other player get a chance to win, but it meant a lot to the community that the bastions of wushu were getting their shit rocked by non-wushu players. I want to say it was deprav who famously got decap'd in a absolute bruiser of a wushu game that sort of made everyone cringe. The other problem was the non-wushu players who were winning against the wushu players were bored. They explained how dumb they thought the mod was, how broken it inherently was, etc.

After this all goes down, a straw that breaks the camel's back was the infamous CulaPou backplant in ninjutsu. He made a thread explaining if all you did was fall flat on your ass in ninjutsu, a wushu player's enjoyable striking mod alternative that had public servers, you could just wait , sticking your knees out for safety, and never lose. He boasted astronomically high win streaks doing this, so much so the staff had to intervene and say well I guess the mod is broken then and removed it. Not satisfied yet, he went into public wushu rooms, calling himself the best to have ever played. His opener was simple, raise a shoulder and contract an elbow to block his head, lower his shoulder and contract an elbow to protect his torso, and contact a knee. Turns out he could score some points and run the hell away and secure some pretty nasty streaks in public wushu. And with how long those matchframes can get when the other people is playing like that, wushu basically begins to die. You can't attract new crowds to play your mod if you're losing in it to the most boring gameplay imaginable.

In comes mushu. And mushu blows the hell up. Literally and figuratively. It's not seen as any kind of competitive mod, just something fun new players can enjoy as an alternative to judo that allowed them to have some of the creativity of wushu but the explosions and dms of judo, sort of like old school wushu. People enjoy the new interest dynamic of adding grabs and skeet shots into the match. Tournaments are held, and I think where wushu players desperately overplayed they hand was they fed the troll. They were made upset by mushu. They were onto think "oh no this is the enemy and theyre coming to kill wushu". So wushu players got pretentious, trying to deny mushu's existence, and that only put fuel to the flame. Eventually they add a box which "fixes" the mod in the same way people proposed fixing wushu years ago, and it's a massive success. Degenerate gambling starts taking place because it's a fun mod with a unique skill set, and now it's becoming a "dueler's mod". With people actually being able to create massive streaks in it, but newer players still getting the satisfaction of exploding people now and again despite knowing nothing about the game, this marks the absolute death of any and all wushu. Boxshu mushu just looks like it's a superior mod that bridges the two communities of wushu in a way only old wushu could - give the new players a way to have fun and get cool replays while giving the skilled players a new set of strategies and challenges. RIP wushu, we loved you.
Last edited by Bodhisattva; May 6, 2019 at 03:29 PM.
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Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
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