[Other] Stop randomly changing prices of items PLS (Page 4)

Original Post

Insanity

Sep 4, 2019

Insanity

Dator Mortis

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Posts: 15,606

Clan: fl0w

Sep 4, 2019

Stop randomly changing prices of items PLS

It rlly bothers me that whoever is in charge of priceing does a shitty job.
Sometimes items dont have a price and the suddently they are 5k on shop.
Sometimes items like jiyu dreads were 60k then they get to be like 15k in shop.
Exclussibe event items get put in shop sometimes. Not cool.
Pls stop doing this kind of bullshit and just set a price that sticks with the item forever!
I dislike this randomness in priceing. Just make up you mind and roll with it. Do discounts but don't change prices like that.

Its not fair for buyers or for sellers.

= SELLING MARKET INVENTORY =
Pm me for deals

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Kraken

Mar 2, 2020

Kraken

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Mar 2, 2020

i absolutely agree with this especially when it comes to putting limited time/event items, on the shop ruins it for the people who worked hard to get them

A wise man once told me...

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kouta

Mar 4, 2020

kouta

ReplayMaker Purple Belt

Join Date: Jul 2013

Posts: 681

Clan: Liquor

Mar 4, 2020

Yeah they ruined the Ukeko Pillow too, was common for around 100k now 30k? To everyone who owned rare items that's pretty much spitting in their face and efforts when high value items suddenly drop in the torishop what's next demon warrior armor in the shop? Please just make new items. Instead of recycling great things into common crap.

http://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=560974 replay thread

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MariaVirgine

Apr 13, 2020

MariaVirgine

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5th Dan Black Belt

Join Date: Feb 2016

Posts: 491

Apr 13, 2020

Bump.

Stop it.

Kyrie, rex genitor ingenite, vera essentia, eleison.

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unbandemon

Apr 13, 2020

unbandemon

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Apr 13, 2020

Originally Posted by spectre

I don't think that's about to happen, the exact same thing happens in real life. Prices come and change. For every item that's price decreases another item's price increases, more or less.

yea i remember when they sold iphones for $800 then immediately dropped the price to $50 for no reason without saying something

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unbandemon

Apr 13, 2020

unbandemon

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Apr 13, 2020

i think u misunderstood my analogy because u misunderstood what this thread is asking for

they take items that are worth many tc and either put them on sale for over 50%, or they just completely lower the price

the 512x512 ground texture cost like 90k in the market, then they put it on sale for 40k in the torishop

all 3d items and hairs used to be like 25k+ each, now majority of them are like 5 or 10k

they are lowering the prices of shit for no reason. it's not that items are losing their value because of trading or anything, they are literally lowering the prices below what u can actually sell them for as a marketer

either way the people who manage the shop kinda retarded so they do shit like that. my guess is they want the game to die so they are tryin to push out the older players by doin some shit as retarded as this consistently for years

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unbandemon

Apr 14, 2020

unbandemon

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Apr 14, 2020

everyone knows that's why, but that makes no fucking sense lol

imagine if valve started selling older csgo knives in the steam market for $20 but they released a new type of knife? it's the exact same concept as what you just said lol

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SmallBowl

Apr 14, 2020

SmallBowl

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Apr 14, 2020

Im actually pretty sure the sales are automated - it's not someone choosing "I'll put this item at this price today" although I think the algorithm would make a lot more sense if the price was set to 90% of the lowest market (not forum) price or something rather than the seemingly random pricing that we get.

That way it would give a good deal without tanking the value of every item sold

Don't dm me pictures of bowls that you find attractive.

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iTemp

Apr 14, 2020

iTemp

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Apr 14, 2020

Think about it like this, maybe they lowered the prices on these items because maybe toribash is going through a recession as well?

#iTemp

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saily is a hottie

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MariaVirgine

Apr 14, 2020

MariaVirgine

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Apr 14, 2020

Originally Posted by SmallBowl

Im actually pretty sure the sales are automated - it's not someone choosing "I'll put this item at this price today" although I think the algorithm would make a lot more sense if the price was set to 90% of the lowest market (not forum) price or something rather than the seemingly random pricing that we get.

That way it would give a good deal without tanking the value of every item sold

This thread isn't about that.

Kyrie, rex genitor ingenite, vera essentia, eleison.

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Nokia

Apr 14, 2020

Nokia

NON-EXISTING!

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Apr 14, 2020

Originally Posted by Ele

It's been almost 4 months and there's been zero response to this from any people in the know. Even if you disagree, voice your disagreement (along with reasons why). Don't just stay silent.

Taking way too long for any staff to respond or come up with a solution, so I will paste this here as an ex-item forger for 3 years.

I made sure to use many examples as to how TC/ST worth and the sales system should be reworked. This ignores items worth in USD since TC worth per $ is variable and cannot be compared to items priced in fixed TC/ST.
But before you continue reading please remember; this is written from my own perspective, and I am in no way an expert in marketing, nor am I a current staff member; so this is not an “official” response, but rather the potential fix that came in mind.

Part 1
How the Torishop Sales Affecting the Market.

Originally Posted by iTemp

Think about it like this, maybe they lowered the prices on these items because maybe toribash is going through a recession as well?

This was never the main concern, as Toribash always had a "fixed" portion of the playerbase that would not leave as they're invested in one or more aspects of the game, whether economical or martial arts. But this also affects those newcomers who might want to customize their Tori's.

Let's look at the times the sales are seen good "on paper".

) Colors & re-released 3D item are XX% off the original price.

You may have noticed that the spot for the sales on Torishop do not show all items, but rather one that may be of your peak interest (e.g. a 3d item).

This is done to encourage players to play the game more to farm TC off tourneys and (potential) betting servers to get colored and special 3D items.

For instance, Hunter's Cord is on sale for 25% off its' original price from 20k/4 ST to 15k/3 ST as of writing this post, but when you click on the price it also shows some Hot Pink items are also on sale, but are not visible since you wouldn't be as interested.

Now, to tell you the difference, the Hot Pink pack is 18 ST instead of 30ST - that's 40% off, and still was not shown since you would shrug it off as another colored pack for more ST...

Another example of how this type of sale affects the market outside of unique 3D items is seeing those colored items (can be argued that the Shop board would be better, but this is an example.) Hot pink force has been going for 13-14k on the market for some time now, but since the sale it dropped to near 10k (34-39% the original price) and can reduce further due to this.

Not many are buying those despite the price reduction, and the stock will only increase as demand lowers. Only after the sales are over is when these prices can stabilize, but the scar of the price reduction will stick and reduce it by more than 5% of the original price.

) A new/event/seasonal/special item is re-released and is placed on sale as a "hey, this "special" item that was once priced at XXXXX is XX% off for XX hours. Buy it now at a discounted price!".

Originally Posted by Darkshot1

...when it comes to putting limited time/event items on the shop ruins it for the people who worked hard to get them..

Almost every item release that has been announced lately (for the last three years) is following this scenario. Items that are supposed to be special, seasonal, one-time event and so on are later re-released for much less than what it was originally worth to the owners.

This hurts many unique items be it 3D or colors, and many people mentioned items that have fallen victim to this in this thread.

Outside of making it easier to obtain items that were unobtainable for a while, I don't see a need for the sale system. It should be either revised or removed overall, since its' benefits is overshadowed by its' usage on selected items that were either unique or rare, sacrificing quantity over economic health.

It MIGHT have been useful back then, but nowadays TC and ST are so easily obtainable, that the idea of slashing off original prices is doing more harm than good.

Part 2
The Real Worth of ST/TC Fully Depend on the Staff's Current Pricing Method (Implying it Exists).
Everyone Is Going Through Changes but the World Still Carries On.

Originally Posted by SmallBowl

Im actually pretty sure the sales are automated - it's not someone choosing "I'll put this item at this price today" although I think the algorithm would make a lot more sense if the price was set to 90% of the lowest market (not forum) price or something rather than the seemingly random pricing that we get...

I'll just say it isn't 100% automated, nor will it be based on algorithm since that is asking too much from an indie studio with barely any site devs, but I won't say much more not to leak any unnecessary information.

Originally Posted by l0lix

...Now, it isn't fair in some point for buyers and sellers, that's ok, but in some cases it helps to control the market prices, if the ítem isn't worth a lot and it need a real price…

I agree, the price changes are ludicrous after release, and can mean the difference between allowing an item to be a bit more common and killing a rare item’s value entirely.

This can be attributed to the fact that there isn't a clear "baseline" for the price range.
Want proof? look at some items from the Torishop:-

Armblades, Flipflops and Flippers as well as Indian headdress, hidden blade and kitsune mask are each for 20K/7 ST.
Cigar, Mini pond, Steampunk goggles, is for 20K/4 ST.
Straw Hat is 20k/5 ST.
Demon wings [Halloween] are 50K/7 ST.
Love potion [Valentine] is 50K/6 ST.

Do you notice that despite sharing the same payment method, the worth of the item is all over the place? With this logic you can technically trade a Demon Wing (Halloween seasonal, 7 ST) for a Hidden Blade (Common, 7 ST), when they are not in the same category whatsoever.
Here's a better example with more items:-

Ruined hat, Bowler’s hat, Sword in the stone 25K/8 ST.
Pirate belt, Steampunk Hammer, Steampunk hat, UFO 40K/8 ST.
Obsidian Scythe, Shattered head, Head hunter's strip, Spear gallery 50K/8 ST.
Bowler’s hat (8 ST) worth as much as Obsidian scythe (8 ST) but in TC it’s worth half as much (25k hat, 50k scythe)?

Why keep ST as a "special" currency from events when its' worth is this variable? Fix your base pricing first THEN find a way to fix the sales system.

Torishop prices don’t make sense whatsoever since they are manually inserted and are not automatically priced according to a system. Even if this system changes, all prices should be re-touched accordingly (and I know, it’s so many 3D items that are around, but it’s better than literally breaking the market.)

Part 3
Stable Table for Pricing.

Such price differences can be easily avoided with a simple hierarchy system, such as using the tier-like pricing we got on packs.
Here is a system I whipped up within a minute and is much better and organized than these random ST/TC prices we currently have;

THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE, PLEASE DO NOT REFER AS AN ACTUAL PRICING SYSTEM.

VIRTUAL WORTH: 5K TC = 1 ST

5K/1 ST for "Beginner"; things that are simple and should be popular [e.g. Sign. Eyepatch. #Swag cap, Deal with it…]

10K/2 ST for "Intermediate"; more detailed objects, similar size. [e.g. Kunai holster, Hidden blade]

20K/4 ST for "Pro"; Bigger items with much more details. Levels introduced here. [e.g. Kitsune mask, Indian headdress, Bo staff, Katana]

50k/10 ST for “Oldschool” Items that stand out as medium in size. Replacement for bodyparts or joints start here [e.g.Steampunk hammer, Pirate hook, Jetpack]

100K/20 ST for "Godlike”; Rarer items that should be limited but would be re-introduced again [e.g. Sharko the Shark, Anime hair]

200K/40 ST for "Cosmic"; Items that are most detailed and should be rare [e.g. Scythe, Colossal sword]

500K/100ST for “Legendary”; priceless items that were either won in events like CL or Championship that are re-released for the public. [e.g. Banner, fl0wBot]

Each 3D set/pack with multiple items will be assigned a tier. The pricing depends on the amount of items there are in the set to keep a fixed price
e.g. a set with four 3D items under "beginner" would cost 5K/1ST x 4 = 20K/4 ST, whereas a set with four 3D items under "godlike" would be 100K/20ST x 4 = 400K/80 ST.

You get the picture; in this hypothetical pricing system, prices can be referred to when releasing any new item. It will not cause huge price swings when re-releasing any old seasonal and event items, and the players as well as marketers will know the worth of the item upon release according to its’ tier.

Part 4
Communicate Communicate Now, Learn to Use Your Words so We Can Communicate!

Of course, such system would be decent on paper, but to implement it is another story. It would take coordination from both the staff team and the community and it would require feedback as to how prices would be changed with updates. (which, judging by this thread, is near non-existent since more than 7 months has passed by)

I was making a point about how Item Forgers are busy creating models an textures, and how it is a voluntary position so you should not expect 100% activity rate as they are not being paid in $ for creating 3D models and items (besides for Goat), buuuuut......Since they have been dead for many months with no new purchasable items for Toribash this year (That is if I didn't miss any. Only new event items I have seen are the Clan Banner for Toricombat, but that's already a thing from Clan League, and the Romantic Rose for Valentine which I'm sure will be recycled and released this year or next valentine like the other valentine items. Not going to mention April Fools "pack" for obvious gambling reasons.) let alone the previous years, then one can only hope the staff's efforts on Toribash Next will make up for the gaps and issues marked by the community. Maybe it would grow enough so more people who are willing to volunteer become Item Forgers, and can create items for the game more regularly like how it was between 2016-2018...unrealistically optimistic here though.

Feel free to reply/state what you think of this idea, or note anything, and whenever I am able to I'll reply back. Thought this long post doesn't warrant a new thread since it's a follow-up response to this thread.

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