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Shoveling
Ok, so in akido, everything is going well. Some guy walks in, and does the thing everyone hates, shovel.
This is also known as pushing someone out of the ring using grabby hands and lifting your shoulders.
I hate it SO much when someone does that.
Not to complain or anything, but I just want to hear your thoughts about this retarded move.
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I am completely OK with it. My main problem with people having problems with shoveling, is that a shovel is just a basic version of a lift so there really is no point at which you can draw the line for what is a shovel and what is a lift.

Also, a shovel can be easily beaten. If you fuck up the opponent's footing, they will just shove themselves out of the dojo.
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Eventually you'll manage to counter that move because shovellers rely on the strength of the opener more than their actual skill. Ultimately the player hurts themselves in the long run, and you start managing to twist his momentum to your advantage.

Unless you don't want to wait that long. Then just mess around in single player till you find a counter move. But getting a feel behind the physics of it is smarter.
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Aikido is a little broken mod in that respect.
Shoveling is extremely effective tactic, and if executed by someone who knows what he is doing it becomes nearly impossible to counter.

Still, you can learn to counter it a decent portion of the time if you play long enough.
I think there are many shovel counter-moves. Try raising your arms and contracting your pecs as a start and when the opponent starts lifting you with the shovelmove, lower your arms and grab. It's not 100% foolproof, but it works for me at times.
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I have no problem whatsoever with shovels. I can usually beat them. If someone tries too shovel you and both your hands are held to their hands, extend both pecs, elbows, contract both wrists and raise both shoulders. Usually works. Depends on the situation.

I recommend making a bigger dojo, so players will actually try to wrestle each other to the ground rather than shovelling cause you won't go outside the dojo when you get shovelled with a bigger dojo.
I am a shovel user in normal Aikido, even though I don't use that move what you are thinking of... I think.
And I think that people whine about shovels because they can't counter it, and that others whine about it, too...
Originally Posted by OrAclE View Post
Eventually you'll manage to counter that move because shovellers rely on the strength of the opener more than their actual skill. Ultimately the player hurts themselves in the long run, and you start managing to twist his momentum to your advantage.

Unless you don't want to wait that long. Then just mess around in single player till you find a counter move. But getting a feel behind the physics of it is smarter.

Yeah i can counter shovels most of the time, but I'm just saying there's no fun in using the move over and over and over again if everyone else is doing something different.
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Originally Posted by War_Hero View Post
I am completely OK with it. My main problem with people having problems with shoveling, is that a shovel is just a basic version of a lift so there really is no point at which you can draw the line for what is a shovel and what is a lift.

Also, a shovel can be easily beaten. If you fuck up the opponent's footing, they will just shove themselves out of the dojo.

The definition of a shovel is lowering your shoulders on the first turn and raising them on the 2nd. The idea is to grab the opponent as low as possible.
Lifts are normally based on grabbing the other guys arm by simply contracting pecs and raising shoulders.

Originally Posted by DeeJayy741 View Post
If someone tries too shovel you and both your hands are held to their hands, extend both pecs, elbows, contract both wrists and raise both shoulders.

You can't grab a shovelers hand unless you shovel too. The easiest way to beat a shovel is still to dm/frac the shoulders.
Your move works against all pushes though.
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