Maya: there is a lot of diversity among Jews. Ashkenazi Jews are themselves not one group, but a subdivision including people of Polish, Ukrainian, German, Hungarian descent, and more that I can't remember at the moment. Are you arguing that Polish people are Hungarian?
That's not to mention including all the Asian and African Jewish people who have been Jews for centuries.
Why is this important? Because anti-Semitism doesn't refer to just the "Semitic" people (who don't really exist outside of Jewish belief in being people descended from Noah), but refers to a wide swathe of people from around the world with a great many genetic divisions. By your definition, anti-Semitism isn't racist. But it is. Anti-Semitism is racist Maya. Stop being so racist.
Why is the word 'queerphobia' good? Because its root are words that already exist, it covers a wide range of groups pertaining to sexuality and gender, like the word 'racism' covers a wide range of groups pertaining to ethnicity and race. It's just how the English language works, kiddo. If you want to try and invent a new noun for people who specifically are religious persecutors, and are somehow not racist. Well, I wish you bad luck, because it allows racist to claim they're not racist. Not sure how you don't understand that yet, maybe it's because you can't handle being wrong. Or you're racist?
Oh and you spelled it "antisemetic". One i. The rest is stylistic, but I thought it was pretty funny you still didn't notice that. Wilful ignorance is interesting. Anyway, I'm done trying to point out how racist you're being.
Maya is such a bigot.
This is exactly what I was saying but apparently I had to be an asshole about it. I just don't like bigots, what can I say.
I haven't been on forum outside of fl0wboard for most of my time with tb, so my interaction with them is almost strictly in-game. I've never seen them be toxic and they've always treated me nicely, guess I am lucky. And no, I don't go around using slurs in-game.
I'm arguing against racist logic, not sure why you think that makes me like a guy who's clearly an awful racist. There's almost no reason to point out his racism, it's so obvious. It would be like calling wounder toxic. What's the point in that??
Maya's racism isn't obvious. At first I didn't think it was intentional.
Assume what you like, my actions are my actions and I seriously doubt staff see genuine reports about me ingame. I'm sure I've had disingenuous reports, but nothing's happened and it's probably because staff understood context.
You'll be pleased to know that as soon as I'm home again in March I'll be mostly in-game and way less on-forum.
You mean Chirs? Only god I'm aware of atm.
Sure: as long as staff aren't policing based on specific words, but the context of things (is this person really being harassed, or did they bait) I'm happy. Once Divine posted his stats, which I genuinely found very surprising, I was satisfied.
I definitely over reacted initially to that news, I can admit when I was in the wrong. I think already did? But maybe not. That was wrong of me. REEEEEEEEE
I just don't think hating Maya is wrong, and in fact I think she is toxic, but not report-ably toxic - just "hey stop being a [insert latest thing here]" toxic.
That's not to mention including all the Asian and African Jewish people who have been Jews for centuries.
Why is this important? Because anti-Semitism doesn't refer to just the "Semitic" people (who don't really exist outside of Jewish belief in being people descended from Noah), but refers to a wide swathe of people from around the world with a great many genetic divisions. By your definition, anti-Semitism isn't racist. But it is. Anti-Semitism is racist Maya. Stop being so racist.
Why is the word 'queerphobia' good? Because its root are words that already exist, it covers a wide range of groups pertaining to sexuality and gender, like the word 'racism' covers a wide range of groups pertaining to ethnicity and race. It's just how the English language works, kiddo. If you want to try and invent a new noun for people who specifically are religious persecutors, and are somehow not racist. Well, I wish you bad luck, because it allows racist to claim they're not racist. Not sure how you don't understand that yet, maybe it's because you can't handle being wrong. Or you're racist?
Oh and you spelled it "antisemetic". One i. The rest is stylistic, but I thought it was pretty funny you still didn't notice that. Wilful ignorance is interesting. Anyway, I'm done trying to point out how racist you're being.
Maya is such a bigot.
Originally Posted by sir
Not personally in favor of going ultra specific with these words because then it gives more space for people to fight over semantics. Changing wording doesn't affect how cases are dealt with (e.g. we don't turn down reports that contain transphobic language because rules only contain the word "homophobic") , but allows shitters to try to weasel their way out with complaints such as "but you specified this and this and what I did wasn't listed in the rules so I lift my ban stupid staff".
This is exactly what I was saying but apparently I had to be an asshole about it. I just don't like bigots, what can I say.
You truly are lucky. Never seeing skizzify or Swaves acting like pricks does, indeed, require an insane amount of luck.
However, judging by your posts in this thread (that aren't significantly better than those of hipotibor), I'll allow myself to assume that you might be one of those people who act in a similar way to others, which would give a perfect explanation of why you never noticed users mentioned above spitting racial slurs and/or continuously being toxic over their whole stay in this community.
I haven't been on forum outside of fl0wboard for most of my time with tb, so my interaction with them is almost strictly in-game. I've never seen them be toxic and they've always treated me nicely, guess I am lucky. And no, I don't go around using slurs in-game.
I'm arguing against racist logic, not sure why you think that makes me like a guy who's clearly an awful racist. There's almost no reason to point out his racism, it's so obvious. It would be like calling wounder toxic. What's the point in that??
Maya's racism isn't obvious. At first I didn't think it was intentional.
Assume what you like, my actions are my actions and I seriously doubt staff see genuine reports about me ingame. I'm sure I've had disingenuous reports, but nothing's happened and it's probably because staff understood context.
You'll be pleased to know that as soon as I'm home again in March I'll be mostly in-game and way less on-forum.
SMH DIVINE HOW DARE YOU REPLY IN A THREAD WHERE I, THE MIGHTY GOD OF DISCUSSION, REQUESTED THE PRESENCE OF SIR.
You mean Chirs? Only god I'm aware of atm.
Let's try to actually discuss how toxicity should be addressed in the community and not make bring in politics or some personal hate (looking at you drgonz).
Sure: as long as staff aren't policing based on specific words, but the context of things (is this person really being harassed, or did they bait) I'm happy. Once Divine posted his stats, which I genuinely found very surprising, I was satisfied.
I definitely over reacted initially to that news, I can admit when I was in the wrong. I think already did? But maybe not. That was wrong of me. REEEEEEEEE
I just don't think hating Maya is wrong, and in fact I think she is toxic, but not report-ably toxic - just "hey stop being a [insert latest thing here]" toxic.
Originally Posted by sir
Sales happen, prices change. There have been some wrong decisions regarding pricing in past, yes. Sales, however, will continue to happen - no matter how rare the item is among marketers - thus no response to the thread.
Then say that in the thread. That's all you had to do. Don't ignore people who've been bumping that thread for months and months. The very least you could do is address their concerns and give them a response. Or do you honestly think that's too much work?
Originally Posted by sir
Apply to staff, work on these changes together with other staff members. That's how self-managed communities work, no? Oh wait, you already were staff - and were first fired for leaking information, then given a second chance and tried your best to be as much of a headache for others as possible. That's not even my words, it's what people who were in charge of you said: "...this person does not belong on a functional staff team and will do his very best to wear at that team's infrastructure. His attitude is abrasive and conflict-oriented; anyone attempting to reason with him should be very aware that Ele is not one to reason, but instead one to drone on with no end in sight unless the other party has given in or he's gotten what he wants".
What a shocker, faint bitched and whined about me in my usernotes. If we're getting into specifics here, you wanna know why he bitched and whined? It's because I called him out on NOT DOING HIS JOB. Just like how I just now called you out on NOT DOING YOUR JOB with regards to that suggestions thread. If you people just DID YOUR JOBS, then I wouldn't have to hold you to account. But go ahead, continue to paint as being an unreasonable bad guy.
Classy move, btw, bringing up my staff history. I suppose 'poisoning the well' is easier than actually arguing real points though, huh?
also, @Icky bubby, I'm sorry for getting you fired by association from clan squad back then, I know you're still upset about that - But it all worked out for the best, didn't it?
Originally Posted by sir
Staff do not always know what's best for the community, but usually, in fact, we do.
OK mommy.
Originally Posted by sir
I think Urban Dictionary gives a fair description of what "harassment" is:
"Harassment is the act of bullying somebody based on their sexuality, race, religion, size, hair color, or anything like that. It is NOT considered harassment if you are just arguing unless one party is bullying you."
I feel like that's pretty much the way we've been handling moderation for like forever and kept it pretty stable in that sense - even lately when staff had to make some tough calls when it comes to moderation, especially in "Dear Cishet People" thread.
If you wanna roll with that definition of harassment, then roll with it. I'm just saying that you ought to include a definition.
Originally Posted by sir
- Nowhere does it state that harassment isn't allowed. The line that says that it "may result in a ban" is kept, but anyone who likes to fight over semantics would be right to later point out that "they didn't know it's not allowed because rules don't say so". Specifically including the word "repetitive" would likely backfire too - this essentially means that you are allowed to go and throw the worst racisal / homophobic slur you can come up with towards some user and get away with it, literally because you didn't repeat it and thus stayed clear according to rules
With respect to my inclusion of 'repetitive', many sites specify frequency as a defining factor of harassment. As I said though, if you want to roll with urban dictionary's definition (of all places), then whatever, don't include it.
"Harassment is not allowed. It is defined as malicious targeted abuse (through insulting, name-calling, trolling and so on)."
The important takeaway from this adjustment is that it includes the term 'malicious' which speaks to the intent of the offender. This would make us folk who're concerned with context and intent happy.
Originally Posted by sir
- "There is currently also a standing ban on the malicious usage of any homophobic or racial slurs..." - "currently" as in "we may rethink it later"? Might have misunderstood it, but if that's the correct meaning then this word is certainly shouldn't be there.
OK.
"There is a standing ban on the malicious usage of any homophobic or racial slurs..."
Fine by me.
Btw, I meant currently to mean 'currently'.
Originally Posted by sir
- "Pornography/gore/warez etc. are not allowed in public spaces at any time for any reason within the Toribash community." - gore and warez aren't allowed anywhere on forums, including private boards. Would be better to either separate porn with gore + warez, or keep the rule as is with the addition of something like "unless stated otherwise by board rules".
Agreed.
"Pornography is not allowed in public spaces at any time for any reason within the Toribash community. Gore and warez are not allowed anywhere."
Originally Posted by sir
By the way, Divine was absolutely right. How dare we not make a guy who's known to be an ass to work with make an admin, especially after one of community's worst racists and bigots said they should be one. Wow, staff bad.
Forgive me for injecting some humor into the discussion here. I don't actually want to be admin. I could not stand putting up with all the petty staff politics. I'll continue to work to change shit from the outside, if I see the need. And I'll continue holding staff to account.
Originally Posted by sir
I suppose the whole point of this post of yours was to say "look at context, not at raw text", and this is what staff have been doing since the day automated in-game reports became a thing. The whole idea of that system was that we could get said context - because this way we can see the whole chat log and not only what the side that made the report included in their screenshots.
If you meant something else, please explain without tying it to racist bullshit that hipotibor shat out.
My point was about profiling not being an inherently racist thing. Which was a point that hipotibor made, amongst others.
This is like the 'currently' thing.
Originally Posted by sir
Let's try to actually discuss how toxicity should be addressed in the community and not make bring in politics or some personal hate (looking at you drgonz).
You literally poisoned the well twice in your post bro, with me and tbash. Pot calling kettle black mate.
"anyone attempting to reason with him should be very aware that Ele is not one to reason, but instead one to drone on with no end in sight unless the other party has given in or he's gotten what he wants""
Shit, I compromised like 4 (!!!) times in this response... I'm breaking character.
It's almost like I respect valid points and... Reject (?!?) shitty ones. Pfft, how unreasonable, I can't work with this guy!
PS - If you're gonna spit the dummy, permaban and fuck me (like you did hipotibor) - Take me out for dinner first, would ya?
Last edited by Ele; Jan 26, 2020 at 04:40 PM.
Elitist
This thread is just beyond stupid. I'm pretty sure most of stuff is fine as it is, some of y'all take this way too seriously. No need to invent the wheel again.
It's All About Expansion
This is my thread and I will close it whenever I decide everyone's viewpoints are terrible.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Originally Posted by sir
Sorry tbashboii, how dare we not make you feel safe and comfortable. Please let me know how many more accounts you would like to hijack, users to scam, or racist slurs to say. The fact that you are still allowed to play the game is fascinating on its own, and if I were you I'd try to stay as low as possible and not casually advocate for muslim people murderings, be toxic to other players in-game and keep breaking other forum rules. I'm even more amazed we haven't yet permabanned all of your accounts now that I've checked your current account's history, wow. Sure staff give no second chances, right
why didnt you then? would have saved me and everyone else a lot of headache
i'd also like to point out I was a little kid when I was doing any of these things you said (other than that muslim stuff on WIBBLES)
Last edited by Wounder; Jan 26, 2020 at 08:41 PM.
