Hi hello, gonna just go down and copy paste the points from the OP and address them individually with suggestions and thoughts.
Parent-child, sibling, feeder or any type of multi-clans like this circumvent many intentional limitations placed on toriclans:
- member limits
Ok so I feel that this point was kinda missed. It's not specifically because Parrot was trying to do it, we know they weren't. But it could very easily be used to do so.
The simple solution is to limit the membercap of a feeder clan to that of it's parents.
So if parrot has 55 members, and has a membercap of 70, Parakeet could only be allowed a maximum of 15 members, and Parrot would need to continue warring to up it's membercap for use in Parakeet.
The issue therein is that leveling up for parakeet loses some of it's meaning, but I guess they're different from standard unofficial clans anyway.
- easy war farming
You're right, can be easily fixed with it's own rule. Can add an addendum that states that you can't use the official war system for wars between Parent/Child clans. I don't wanna say you can't war each other cos I imagine that shit would be pretty fun for everyone, especially if the child clan won, just can't use the toriclan system for it.
- easy achievement farming
Same as above, just make sure the two clans have no official interaction with each other within the toriclan system.
- easy xp farming in general
Above.
- much larger (unfairly so) catchment for new recruits
The point seems to have landed with some and others shout that it's pointless.
I think Bish made a pretty good point in the other thread:
Originally Posted by
VIDEOGAMES
I think the point he is trying to make is that not moderating the number of clans has potential to lead to squashing regular unofficial clans.
If only half of the current official clans decide to make unofficial sub-clans, the entire first page of the unoffical clan subforum could have 0 regular, non-feeder clans. I think it's easy to see correlation between being on the first page and what clans people apply for. I sort of doubt that many sub clans would arise, but I don't think its right to write rules that only work situationally.
The rules and system that we implement need to work on the basis that every official clan has the ability to create a feeder clan, and if that were the case you have a significant portion of the front page of unofficial clans being taken up by the already well established community, which very much hurts the 13 year old who's just getting into this unique ass video game with a couple of his mates and wants to be the next Nuthug.
Surge mentioned a sub board within the clan board (I'm assuming) but I think that's not really a solution. The idea is that you grab new players, but hiding the DSC within a sub-board of another board in a board etc. isn't viable.
Agree or not there is a very real damage that can/will be done to unofficial clans if feeder clans are allowed to freely act within the same pool as them and I don't know how to rectify this without shitting on feeder clans.
Like the only thing coming to mind are no DSC in the unofficial board (but there can be one in the parent board of the clan).
- two recruitment threads, one usually in a space reserved exclusively for unofficial clans
Similar to my above point, but I would argue it's even more important that genuine unofficial clans be given the priority in this board as it's kinda the sign posted GO JOIN NEW CLANS HERE board.
- potential to play twice in clan events
Again, the rules would feel like I'm shitting on feeder clans but ultimately you could just say if Parrot (or parent) was involved in a clan event, Parakeet (or feeder) would be ineligible to play, end of.
- undefined interaction with activity checking
This one is left pretty broad because it's highly speculative in my mind, it's based on a series of what ifs that will be in effect in varying degrees constantly.
The extreme what if is; what if Parrot dies and Parakeet is thriving? Do we make Parakeet the new Parrot? Does Parakeet cut all ties and it becomes it's own clan?
How would we count them in activity checks? If Parrot was worthy of a warning but the Parakeet board was booming, how do we reconcile the two.
I think I know how this will be answered so I'll preemptively make my counter argument.
Feeder clan IS HEAVILY TIED with parent clan. I've seen lots of arguments say "it's its own clan just with endorsement". In my head it's like a disguised official clan in the unofficial board and so far none of the arguments presented have managed to convince me otherwise. Just people saying "yeah but we could say it's not then what's the difference". Well the difference is we're not idiots and it's obvious even if it's technically independent in terms of rules.
Ultimately the tl;dr for me is that there would be a lot of limitations put on feeder clans i.e. membercaps based on parent clan, DSC limitations in some form, lack of official event participation. Which makes me question is it worth it? And that question isn't for me to answer, it's up to the clans that would want to do that. I don't get/like the idea of a feeder/trial clan anyway, but that's founded purely in personal preference.
With regards to Surge's post about integrating it into the toriclan, I don't know how much work that would be for something that may not get much use. It also only really fixes the membercap/warring based issues, still got the issue of the DSC/activity kicking about.
EDIT: There have been a load of replies since I started writing the post dear lord have mercy I'll try and address some with edits.
EDIT2: With regards to the replies, it doesn't really matter if you feel the community is too small for it. If they want to do it then so long as it's done in a non-harmful way it doesn't matter. Personally I think the community is too small for it, which is why the rules have to be ready to deal with the possibility of every official clan doing this, it's not just about Parrot. Which I already addressed in my reply.
Last edited by Erth; Nov 19, 2017 at 10:08 PM.